POLICE brutality at UCLA, STUN a student who is HANDCUFFED!!!

[bilbous]

i thought the dude in the truck was done by thugs in reaction to King, and not by thuggish police.

[Coneitic]

it was a long time ago you may be right, might not, but either way the cops had no right to do it, just like people have no right to assault anyone, the fact of the matter is it happens and when he did not have his card he should have gotten up and left no problem, at least to go get the card, as we all know most teens are smartasses and most police dont tolerate it. now i am not justifying what happend, just that we are all aware that stuff like this happens all the time and we should learn, its not going to change. no matter how many lawsuits, no matter how many new laws, people are cruel and unjust. it comes a time for people to think of possible outcomes wether the outcome is good or bad and measure what could happen to what actions you are doing. and 20 bucks says kid was running his mouth. i know i would have =)

[Stonn]

Hmm. I'm with Drah on this one. Yes, this looks to be abuse from my angle, but it doesn't suprise me. Do NOT read that I think the police were ok and the guy was completely at fault. Something tells me that if he just left, and didn't freak out and start yelling about being touched, than nobody would have been in the position to get abused. Instead he makes a scene and we have this jibba jabba. I have been through almost the exact same thing, and politely requested that I not be phyiscally escorted out (I got the hands on the shoulder as well). After they realized I wasn't going to be making a problem (even though it is difficult to do so from the moment you're cuffed), they were very civil about it. I call it "cause/effect." But some people just want to push buttons to make a point when they feel wronged, and that's my simplified take on this situation. Nobody likes to be screamed at when they are just trying to do their job, regardless of how well one thinks they are doing it.

Thanks buddy, for giving us something to tear into each other about.

[Coneitic]

your with drah or me on the subject? =)

[Stonn]

Heheh I just read your post. Seems we three are on our own misfit island 

[bilbous]

I think part of the problem is that in the west we fill our kids heads with nonsense like "human rights" and "civil disobedience" and the only problem with these high sounding ideals which are great in theory is that they go directly against human experience. Now I am all for making the world a better place which is what I am really talking about as nonsense but the reality is that those who have power have no intention of letting the least little bit slip from their grasp and for the most part they got it by stepping on people on their way up or inheriting it from someone who did. The lower you are on the totem pole the more you resent those above you and the more you take it out on those below.

This guy probably believed he was doing something noble by (passively?) resisting the abuse when he was just infuriating the abuser. I suspect he was a third or fourth generation American thoroughly steeped in the crap that we teach our children. I am not American but Canada is only 10-20 years behind any societal trend in the States. Sub-cultures tend to stay relatively current because the youth are quicker to try to blend in with their peers.

[zanzibar]

Hmmm, maybe back to topic? Instead of making this all about Phinehas.

Oh for crying out loud. Was that really necessary? Attracting attention never even entered my mind when I posted here. I won't make the mistake of doing so again, as I have no wish to discuss minor issues with people who fail to see the real issue at hand.

Yeah, Phinehas is an adult who can defend himself just fine when he wants to.

[LARAGORN]

Maybe people want to talk about it. Maybe people want to debate how it could have been handled differently. Maybe people need to express how they feel about it because they want their voice to be heard about this topic some where. Why is that so much of a problem to you? Let it be and let people discuss. You are NOT the referee. For your information I am interested in the points of views of these people, so feel free to call it ranting or whatever you want but I don't share the same point of view as you and would like to see the discussion continue. If you don't want to be in the spot light then stop putting yourself there. You had valid points but so did everyone else in this thread. Only it is becoming more about your point of veiw than it is everyone else's. That is what I am not interested in and that is what made me post my opinion.

I dont see how Phinehas is putting himself in the spotlight here, he is merley stating his opinion and resons for it. We the other participents of the discussion are aiming questions to him, he didnt ask for the attention, we put it there. As he states below, we are doing a good job with this discution and feels he need not input any more, he didnt ask us to stop.

(I am not defending Phinehas, as he is capable of that, I am clearing up a misconception)

Actually, I think that you guys are doing a good job dissecting what happened and ranting back and forth about it, and I see no reason to add to that.

@Laragorn:

What if I've taken other opportunities to stand up for right? Does it then make me worse that I don't stand up for this one? We have to choose our battles because we're incapable of fighting all of them. If you guys choose to fight for a guy who got tazered by police unfairly, good for you. I, however, do not choose to fight this one, so don't expect me to.

On a side note, I think having lived outside the U.S. opens your views up a whole lot to what's going on in other places.

I agree we must choose our battles, otherwise we would be fighting day in and day out. Your actions on this matter are ofcource your choice, I have no expectations in the least of your actions. I am sure you have your causes you feel strongly about, as everyone should.

My point is that small issues like this can and do make a differance given the right amount of attention. This can be an example for a change in training and stricter guidlines for Law enforcment officers everywhere.

[Coneitic]

i dont believe talking about it and discussing it will change anything, those who agree will simply agree and those who disagree will continue doing what they are doing. its very hard to change someones point of view and even harder when you read it on a screen. i think what happen is just a perfect example of human nature. whether its right or wrong. it will never change, we all need to just think before we act. "ok a cop wants me to leave, i know not all cops are bad but what if this cop is? i could get my ass tazerd if he is bad so i better keep my mouth shut and go get my library card, or i could get smart about it and risk getting hurt". whether its right or wrong that is how people are in the world and it will not change, no matter who says what. we should all take this as a lesson as to who we can run our mouth to. 90 percent of people with power use it as much as they can. once again its human nature.
but to let it known again i dont condone what the officer did...

[Datruth]

i dont believe talking about it and discussing it will change anything, those who agree will simply agree and those who disagree will continue doing what they are doing. its very hard to change someones point of view and even harder when you read it on a screen. i think what happen is just a perfect example of human nature. whether its right or wrong. it will never change, we all need to just think before we act. "ok a cop wants me to leave, i know not all cops are bad but what if this cop is? i could get my ass tazerd if he is bad so i better keep my mouth shut and go get my library card, or i could get smart about it and risk getting hurt". whether its right or wrong that is how people are in the world and it will not change, no matter who says what. we should all take this as a lesson as to who we can run our mouth to. 90 percent of people with power use it as much as they can. once again its human nature.
but to let it known again i dont condone what the officer did...

I don't get what the need is to shove this all away.
This wasn't that long ago, and not even a week has past since this event.

It's fine if you think this discussion is useles... you can leave, if not, stare from a distance.

You can even comment saying how useless it is, we won't mind
The truth is, Talking about it is essential, spreading the information, getting people to understand the situation at hand.

So far alot of us say there is a great deal of Police Brutality going around, WELL then lets Discuss it, How can we stop these things from happening.

And NO, we can't depend on the media, Right now we have 1 good weapon, Youtube, it is the internet's version of T.V.
Youtube is big enough to fill the Niche of the T.v on the internet, a sort of media for us all.

From now on if anything this Heinous happens again, that should be your first destination.

AND NO, helping others THOUSANDS Of miles away, may be great, because alot of times they are in more need.
But it doesn't help squat Here, and turning a blind eye to the massive pile of evil here hurts us.

It's like having a MILLION DOLLARS, and donating all it away, now you have no money and you're broke you CAN'T help anyone.
The only reason we can help people outside the states is because the states are stable in alot of ways.

IF we don't keep them stable, then we're asking for these events to occur.
WE Need to stop these events from happeneing again, then move onto the rest of the world.

You help a starving neihbor before you help one thousands of miles away.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And ANNAH, stop your obnoxious Bull!
I don't care if you're RPING, your words affect the others in this thread.

The police is(is? lol) paid to protect us from who? From aliens? Wasn't that "from other people"? And for god's sake don't turn this discussion in a good vs evil one, or simply one in which you try to define one of those words. They're both relative. Live with that.

The Police are here to protect us.... from us..... yes.... I get that.... BUT THEY DON'T TAZER PEOPLE FOR LIBRARY FINES!

Oh and about good and evil being relative, i'll make  thread on why that can't be soon.

As for that damn video, uhm, I think someone just got shot somewhere on Earth. Does that matter? Oh, no... why? Because he's not your neighbour Dath?

Uhm... It matters, but guess what  uhm........ I can't do anything about it cause guess what, Uhmm, HE's 100,000 MILES away.

And uhm, if i see the same thing happen in my neihborhood, than  ... uhm.... I'll work to fix it.

Cause    uhm....... I can actually do something about it.             uhmm...... Do you  uhmmmmm understand me?

I really hope you've understood my ironies.

Not really?  You don't seem to think there is an abuse of power because, as you put it, Police are here to protect us from us.

And then you say, we shouldn't label this into Good and Evil, Because Obviously we don't agree on that in this thread.....

For the record, that was sarcasm.... and i think we're all in agreement that tazing that man, was evil and wrong.

OH and my names not DATH, AN lol

~~Datruth

Language warning! --Karyuu

[Valbrandr]

I didnt happen to see anything in the video that looked out of line by the police.. the guy was basically resisting arrest after the police told him over and over again to stand up. And the other people around getting in the face of the cops likely were not making the situation any better.. adding to the already tense situation.  But hell I dont know what happened moments before.

[Datruth]

I didnt happen to see anything in the video that looked out of line by the police.. the guy was basically resisting arrest after the police told him over and over again to stand up. And the other people around getting in the face of the cops likely were not making the situation any better.. adding to the already tense situation.  But hell I dont know what happened moments before.

Read this, http://www.blakeross.com/2006/11/17/on-the-ucla-tasering/

Than you'll know what happened that led up to that.

And, look at these parts of the video:

(4: 12 seconds in, and 4:30 seconds into the video)3:50

(4: 45)

(5: 20)

(6: 35)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

He had falllen down the stares, and been hurt really bad, then he got tazered 3 additional times, i listed te timing up there.

Once you learn more about this story, you will see how shocking it is.

~~Datruth

[Akaye]

(I am not defending Phinehas, as he is capable of that, I am clearing up a misconception)

Fair enough LARAGORN, but also remember I made this post first. *points down* then Phinehas responded with "oh for crying out loud was that  necessary ...... etc." That my friend is drawing attention. If he didn't want it he would have just left my post alone and exercised some self control. He would have continued to answer the questions "aimed" at him. Instead he had to pick at my post. It wasn't even meant to upset him, he choose to have the tone set that way when responding to my post.

[edit] I also want it known I am aware that I to could have left these posts alone and "exercised some self control". Just before that gets picked at.    I just think it is bad to get into the middle of discussions like Phinehas and I have had in this thread. It only keeps things going, but wanted to explain my point of view to you LARAGORN.

Hmmm, maybe back to topic? Instead of making this all about Phinehas. Yes, Phinehas as you stated the obvious, there are problems and situations all over the world that need attention. Now that that was stated, moving on .....  I would like to keep reading about the discussion I was becoming very interested in about this handcuffed student and the police. Some of these points of views are very interesting.

~>~>~>~>~>~><~<~<~<~<~<~

On topic: There was a man walking around one night down town in Edmonton. He was off of his medication and rambling on about killer bee's and other stuff. He was mentally ill. Witnesses say that he wasn't threatening anyone or causing problems. He was just pacing and talking to himself basically. The police tasered him anyway and he later died in hospital due to a cardiac arrest.

[Datruth]

~>~>~>~>~>~><~<~<~<~<~<~

On topic: There was a man walking around one night down town in Edmonton. He was off of his medication and rambling on about killer bee's and other stuff. He was mentally ill. Witnesses say that he wasn't threatening anyone or causing problems. He was just pacing and talking to himself basically. The police tasered him anyway and he later died in hospital due to a cardiac arrest.

That's a really sad story, and it touches home with me.
I did alot of Volunteer work with the mentally ill, and it changed me as a person.

Right now societies answers to the mentally ill are such, shove them to the side and strip them of their rights.
Or, put them in jail, which is frequently populated with mentally ill patients.

Right now there is only 1 person who is respected in America, The working man, especially the rich working man.
If you don't have a job, you'll have your rights slowly removed, Students, Mentally ill, Elderly.

Not only that, but Women who work have been shown to be Paid less, for the same jobs, so even if Women try to work, Someone always puts them down.

This is why i don't enjoy our Capatalistic System in the U.s, and i would like more socialism.
To help those who cannot help themselves.

Restounds motto is such, it's written on many forums:

Take my hand, i'll lead the way
I promise i won't lead you astray.

IN this same exact way, the government should help those who cannot help themselves.
 Rather than do that though, The government says, scratch my back, i scratch yours.

Great story Akaye, it was really sad

~~Datruth

[LARAGORN]

Fair enough LARAGORN, but also remember I made this post first. *points down* then Phinehas responded with "oh for crying out loud was that  necessary ...... etc." That my friend is drawing attention. If he didn't want it he would have just left my post alone and exercised some self control. He would have continued to answer the questions "aimed" at him. Instead he had to pick at my post. It wasn't even meant to upset him, he choose to have the tone set that way when responding to my post.

[edit] I also want it known I am aware that I to could have left these posts alone and "exercised some self control". Just before that gets picked at.    I just think it is bad to get into the middle of discussions like Phinehas and I have had in this thread. It only keeps things going, but wanted to explain my point of view to you LARAGORN.

~>~>~>~>~>~><~<~<~<~<~<~

On topic: There was a man walking around one night down town in Edmonton. He was off of his medication and rambling on about killer bee's and other stuff. He was mentally ill. Witnesses say that he wasn't threatening anyone or causing problems. He was just pacing and talking to himself basically. The police tasered him anyway and he later died in hospital due to a cardiac arrest.

Points taken and understood.

I remember a few cases in the west that showed complete abuse of power by both local police and the RCMP. There were 3 or 4 cases of Natives being beaten badly then stripped of there close in the midle of winter. In one case this happend, then they dropped him off on the outskirts of town; Only to be found dead the next day.

I relize Akaye, there is a great deal of injustices in our backyard too. Hopefuly with the advancments of technoligies these too can be documented, so they do not continue un-noticed.