PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Roahn on February 12, 2007, 05:17:26 pm
-
I'd like to ask, what is going on with The Winch? Here's the situation: The only way to get to a new map, called "The Winch," is to do what I hesitantly call a "quest." This quest requires talking to a certain NPC. Unfortunately someone decided that the NPC should only give the quest every 15 minutes or so... So there is constantly a crowd around this certain NPC. A few minutes ago, there were a dozen people standing around, typing "Can I help you?" to the same NPC over and over and over again. I spent an hour last night, when there were only 3 of us, and never got the "quest." Today, with a dozen people doing the same thing, I started asking around. One guy said he spent 3 solid hours yesterday, and he's back today, and still hasn't gotten "The Quest."
Now, I hate to whine about a "free pre-alpha" game, but this just baffles me. This NPC is so stupid, he doesn't even understand you when you say "Hello" to him! I've been playing for over a year, and even the day I started, you could at least say "Hello" and get a response better than "Please use a correct phrase." The idea of standing in front of an NPC and asking the same question 10,000 times in a row is just ridiculous, and reminds me yet again why I hadn't done a "quest" in months. I begin to wonder if it would be possible to make a game less interesting.
-Roahn
-
I've been told that there is a lockout for each quest that lasts from a few minutes up to a month. I'm going to try it again in march :D
-
I have to say this sounds like something needs to be done. Perhaps there is another entrance that can be opened by a suitably leveled lock-pick, I haven't looked too hard but I haven't yet found the lock that was supposedly added. Perhaps it is in the Winch heheh. Guess I'll wait a month of so before I try to go there. BTW do you have to talk to the guy every time you want to enter the Winch or is it a one time deal?
-
Is it not obvious what they are thinking? They make a new area thats supposedly only for a select few that are permitted to enter. If it was wide open the place would have been totally packed. That would have been ludacriously against what the settings say about it. Lets face it, if they included a new field in an update everyone would be there. There is no other way to slowly distribute access.
-
Please remember not all quests you can get by just asking there are other quests you need to do before getting certain ones. So it could just be you have not done the quest(s) needed before you can get this one or others.
-
Please remember not all quests you can get by just asking there are other quests you need to do before getting certain ones. So it could just be you have not done the quest(s) needed before you can get this one or others.
I have already done the Helm quest from the same NPC long ago. If there was a prerequisite quest, it would be nice if the NPC would say something about it, other than "I have nothing for you at this time."
The people that have done this quest basically just stood there asking over and over until it finally gave it to them. Time and repeating the same question thousands of times was how they finally got the quest.
-Roahn
-
Perhaps that is true Parallo but realistically there would be more than one entrance, thieves would get in by going over (or under) the walls, up the sewers etc. Has anybody looked to see if the sewers were extended? I know I haven't, nor did I make it down to where the named rogue under the temple sits to see if the passage has been extended behind him yet (fell off the durned ladder just past the thugs).
-
Perhaps that is true Parallo but realistically there would be more than one entrance, thieves would get in by going over (or under) the walls, up the sewers etc.
I havn't done the quest so don't know what it involves.
I would also assume that players who roleplay merchants would be given access to winch areas.
-
I can inform you that no, we are'nt. It'd be nice if we were though.
-
I suppose you could always try to bribe a high level mage (GM) to teleport you in but I don't think it would work....I still don't see anywhere where it says that is the only way in, entrance was said to be "tricksy" which is suitably vague as to allow for it to not be singular. Indeed the inclusion of the s in that term does suggest more than one trick, of course there is only one legal way....and of course I am just talking through my hat. Nice hat by the way.
-
I checked the sewers and the laanx temple. Perhaps I'm unlucky but I've found no entrance to the winch... :@#\
-
Zak might have a new quest...dunno though. Just saw some enkidukai talking to him. There is that platform across from the temple dungeon exit that could theoretically lead somewhere. It may be that any second entrance is not implemented, it is hard to believe there will only ever be one way in.
-
IIf it was wide open the place would have been totally packed.
You mean, like the Bronze Door Area? ;)
-
I enjoy doing the quests... and I appreciate the hard work and thought that has gone into some of them.
I'm not advocating PURE multiple-choice... but I think, for quests... if there are certain phrases to use, we could do with them being options for us... rather than a guessing game on the exact phrase/context/grammar/etc to us.
At present:
- some quests require you to provide the full name of the NPC who sent you, while others don't... to anyone unaware of this... and who have gotten used to the format of phrases used in the majority of quests.... it will lead to frustrated players, it is inevitable.
- many quests require "about [keyword]" to be used... this seemed to be standard for a while... NOW it appears some responses will NOT be triggered if the word "about" is prefixed before the keyword.
- Sometimes a grammatically correct sentence works ONLY... other times a grammatically incorrect sentence works ONLY.
- Saying "tell about [keyword]" to an NPC triggers a response... this is more a command (like picking an item from a multiple-choice list of responses) than it is dialog... and again causes even more confusion to the NPC dialog system.
^^ That said, I also like the freedom to ask about things and be surprised by the hidden information NPCs have if you probe them with questions.
I think for pivotal phrases... especially mid-quest... it'd be nice to have the key-phrases as options... but not necessarily to replace the freeform dialog that exists.
(I'm just trying to think of how to fix what many perceive as a problem in this part of the game mechanics... whilst not taking away something other people may like, such as the freeform dialog.
Anyway... for me, it's not a big issue... eventually someone finds out the answer... and when they do it's usually not long before I learn about it... I'm merely just suggesting something that may smooth out some rough edges in the NPC dialog system.
More importantly, and more on-topic... I was under the impression the lock-out times for quests only applied on a per-person basis. From what I understand here.. these can now apply to everyone as a whole... which would seem to give the potential for a lot of annoyance when a new quest arrives... surely the system doesn't work like this?
@bilbous there are at least 3 quests that involve him, maybe they were talking to them in relation to those quests?? (They all start at different NPCs though... and they all tell you to go see him.. so I'm not spoiling anything!)
-
Indubitably, she mentioned a particular circumstance there is no need to go into. I was just speculating that there might be an underworld way in and that he could possibly be involved if there were. The only time I got him to deal with me he took something I think I needed elsewhere, the blighter! Never did finish that quest....getting off topic sorry.
Wouldn't it be awesome if there was some obscure rooftop pathway you could take to get into the winch?
-
I thought I would take a moment to point out that Roahn's original post to start this thread was a very fair criticism of the new area and not what I would consider "whining." :-)
There are two separate issues here:
a) Using a quest structure to "unlock" areas and gain access to things. This type of framework is going to (slowly) become more and more a part of PS, as we turn a new level into a "carrot" for getting people interested in questing and not just zerking or camping or crafting.
b) NPCs are stupid and dialog is hard to guess, etc. I am working on some Inventory things right now, but next on my plate is to really work on some tools to help Settings know where people are struggling with the quests and with dialog in general, and to help make the NPCs smarter, and therefore easier to play with. Now that we actually have some active Settings people, I hope you will see big improvements in this area in the coming months.
Hope that helps,
Vengeance
-
And a third, Vengeace. From what I gather there is a lockout for quests after somebody gets it. As in player B can't get the quest until 15 minutes after player A does.
And yeah, your sabbatical? :P
-
Nobody would complain if you could talk to a NPC like normal person, or at least imitating it. The problem isnt in how much the NPC knows, but in the communication. When you ask about entering the area, he just tell you makes no sense. And you have to enter it becuse of important reason.
Damn, how hard it is to tell someone you want to enter and then positively answered or told you can't because of some reasons. But no, NPCs won't do that 99% of the time. And you don't know if what you ask for can be ever answered or is there are some other reasons like timing.
This is getting ridiculous. I'm seriously considering making a spoilers database of everything you can talk with NPCs and spreading it (of course in semi-hidden/restricted way along the silent agreement. ).
Guys in charge, you are forbidding spoilers (what i'm happy of so far...) but if NPCs communicaton stay as it is, a spoiler will be the only way out.
to enter the winch say that:
to get glyph A do quest X before.
Quests A glyph unlocks Y quest.
and so on Yada yada yada.
But even if wrong, I find it more interesting to go along such spoiling guide, rather than talk with the NPCs. I'm almost sounding like a whinner. But while you say you can do nothing about people who put these spoilers somewhere, at the same time the questing system is still the same, encouraging people for spoiling.
I better go drink a cup of cappucino, before i say too much and forget about the damn thing, before i lost my sanity. Thats the only way if you want to continue playing PS.
EDIT: thank you Vengeance, I just hope the NPC communication will get better. I hope you have few good idea.
-
Please remember there are quest lockouts per quest and per char so you can all get locked out a quest for a time period because the npc does not need your help.
-
There should be a way to access such places that doesn't involve quests. I mean, if your character is widely known as a honorable and reputable one from the "upper class" of merchants, why would his access to the winch be blocked?
Also where is the black market?
-
Please remember there are quest lockouts per quest and per char so you can all get locked out a quest for a time period because the npc does not need your help.
Yes, but it would be nice if the NPC would respond in a way so we would know this. "Come back in 15 minutes" or "I will never give you this quest" or "Keep asking me over and over again until I finally change my mind."
The current system reminds me of Bart Simpson asking Homer if they can go to an amusement park:
Bart: "Can we go to the amusement park?"
Homer: "No"
Bart: "Can we go to the amusement park?"
Homer: "No"
Bart: "Can we go to the amusement park?"
Homer: "No"
Bart: "Can we go to the amusement park?"
Homer: "No"
Bart: "Can we go to the amusement park?"
Homer: "No"
Bart: "Can we go to the amusement park?"
Homer: "No"
Bart: "Can we go to the amusement park?"
Homer: "Yes"
-Roahn
-
I enjoy doing the quests... and I appreciate the hard work and thought that has gone into some of them.
Why thank you! I'll try to address some of your concerns as best I can.
I'm not advocating PURE multiple-choice... but I think, for quests... if there are certain phrases to use, we could do with them being options for us... rather than a guessing game on the exact phrase/context/grammar/etc to us.
Duly noted and we are honestly trying to increase the number of key phrases, as well as make some slightly more obvious. It should be more noticeable in the newer quests, but going back to the older quests will take time. I do think we have a better track record than some of the old text adventure games, though.
some quests require you to provide the full name of the NPC who sent you, while others don't... to anyone unaware of this... and who have gotten used to the format of phrases used in the majority of quests.... it will lead to frustrated players, it is inevitable.
I've noticed this too and I agree with you. It's my intent to fix it so that in all quests, at least the first name will work if not both the first and full names.
EDIT! Two more got fixed in this respect. If you find any others that don't accept a first name, only a full name, please submit to the bugtracker.
many quests require "about [keyword]" to be used... this seemed to be standard for a while... NOW it appears some responses will NOT be triggered if the word "about" is prefixed...
Not sure why this is.
Saying "tell about [keyword]" to an NPC triggers a response... this is more a command (like picking an item from a multiple-choice list of responses) than it is dialog... and again causes even more confusion to the NPC dialog system.
^^ That said, I also like the freedom to ask about things and be surprised by the hidden information NPCs have if you probe them with questions.
I think "tell about x" works because short words like "me" are ignored, and it's taken to mean "tell me about x." (which is dialogue and not command.) I could be wrong about this point.
I think for pivotal phrases... especially mid-quest... it'd be nice to have the key-phrases as options... but not necessarily to replace the freeform dialog that exists.
Sounds rather tricky to give options in a freeform dialogue. Um...but I'll keep it in mind?
Anyway... for me, it's not a big issue... eventually someone finds out the answer... and when they do it's usually not long before I learn about it... I'm merely just suggesting something that may smooth out some rough edges in the NPC dialog system.
And it's appreciated, especially when your criticisms are constructive. As Vengeance said, it's being worked on. Settings is more active so we'll have the ability to do some edge-smoothing. Thanks, and enjoy the quests.
To lordraleigh: Doing quests gets you known by the NPCs. Sure, you might have a reputation with the PCs and that's great, but there's no way to code "is well-known by PCs" into the winch door. Get in good with the NPCs and you'll be "honourable and reputable" in their eyes. If you're roleplaying a popular character, I think doing those quests is consistent.
-
A lot of the setting to the game is found on the main site but remember if you want to know more about the setting doing a few quests or talking to the npcs is the only way to find out more they can help you come up with more role play options then just going with what you see on the main site.
-
And checking random things' description. That helps too.
-
To be more precise and helpfull from my side.
It is fully right path that you will have to interact with NPCs to do some very basig things. Everything would be fine about it, if before this is being implemented the NPC communication wouldn't cause problems at all. You will never get a message that NPC doesn't know what you are aying about, unless you are really talking with no sense.
If there is no response, the NPC should ask you what you meant. <-- this is the only feature i can think of, besides that the NPC should have giant dictionary of responses to sentences said in loads of different ways.
If you won't fix it, but keep implementing things where you have to communicate with NPC to do somthing... We may reach a situation when to avoid punishment from the guards, or just pay the fine, you have to speak with a NPC. If you won't manage it, (most likely because of communication problem, being all the same since first days of CB), then you become outlaw, banned from a city, and hunted down by ever guard. Only becase the damn NPC guard couldn't understand you wanted to pay him 100 tria.
...if you want to know more about the setting doing a few quests or talking to the npcs is the only way to find out more they can help you come up with more role play options...
It is not valid as long as the NPC communication isn't working.
You need to make the NPC communication develop to a degree when a player won't have problems to communicate, without of use any kind of spoilers.
I don't feel right telling what should be done and what shouldn't, but you know there is something in what i write. Thank you for reading it
-
I actually want to applaud whoever came up with the whole concept around the winch.
Having done the quest, I now am tremendously intrigued by what I find in the winch. Yes it took a little time to get the quest, but it shouldn't be that easy to get access to this new area. Unlikely you will ever run across a noob there.
I love all the assumptions about who should have automatic access in or that there should be alternate routes. I'm waiting to see what the GMs and devs do with this place.
-
Yeah, I was spamming this NPC along with everyone else. Couple of my alts still are. However I wanted to mention this behavior:
1) Character goes to this NPC with the first quest done (and showing in the quest log).
2) Kept spamming him until he offered me the second quest.
3) Kept spamming him after he offered me the second quest, missed saying 'yes' by accident.
4) Kept spamming until he offered me the first quest (that I already had) and said yes.
5) Did first quest a second time, and then carefully spammed him until I got the second quest -- finally.
So, in this case, I had the first quest done and there was some kind of rollover on the quest and I got the first quest again. After I did it that time I was able to spam the NPC until he gave the second quest.
-
A lot of the setting to the game is found on the main site but remember if you want to know more about the setting doing a few quests or talking to the npcs is the only way to find out more they can help you come up with more role play options then just going with what you see on the main site.
Is that 100% guaranteed to be part of the settings? I have heard rumors that NPC dialogues aren't necessarily part of the settings, anyway. Especially the Ojaveda "quarantine" doesn't actually sound like part of the settings, and more like well-meant but ends-up-confusing dragging of OOC into IC.
Edit: OK, thanks, Caarrie.
@ Options: A way to have "options" in a free-form dialog would be to not provide options as one knows them, but possibly an assortment of hints or hunches. These could possibly be auto-entered in the quest log for the quest they belong to.
It is a nicer form of the "diary" that other games commonly feature. An example:
You want to do a quest, but you don't know where to get one. You might start to poke random NPCs, as you do now. However, you might also have, in the quest notes, some "rumors" about stuff. Like "A guard in Hydlaa is missing his pet". These may be based on where you spend a lot of time, or the general vincinity to NPCs. Better results could come when the NPCs are actually being talked to.
Obviously, the best way at this stage of getting a quest would be if the NPCs could tell those rumors themselves, like "I don't have a job for you ATM, but I hear that some guard misses a pet.". This would allow you to narrow things down to quests that you might prefer at the time. Obviously you could narrow things down more easily by going to the guards in Hydlaa and asking "I hear someone of you is looking for his pet?", and the answers could point you to the right one much more natural than ATM. Plus, you could ask the NPC directly for that quest, instead of the general "can I help you?".
Assuming that you got a quest to retrieve a stolen Groffel from NPC Percy. You have been talking to Percy a bit, and he has been rambling on about this and that. Now is time for some hints. The quest log for "Percy's stolen Groffel" could include some hints (based on the ramblings of Percy you have heared):
Percy said that Arleena might have done something to it, because she hates Groffels.
Harnquist needs feathers for his swords and may have kidnapped it.
Sharven breeds Groffels for a hobby.
etc.
So you have some hints that you can look at if you want, and follow. It's more or less automating the log-review.
Now you could also have these "hunches". Under a separate tab, you could get, for example:
Ojaveda Outfitters might be a place to ask.
Hide merchants?
Magic shop?
Some of the "hunches" may lead nowhere.
Once you asked some NPC that is related to or part of the quest, the lists can grow. Especially the hunches can then have the "options" that are desired:
Ask Sharven about Groffel training?
Tell Sharven that you want to buy a Groffel?
etc.
IOW, you augment the dialog system by way of the quest log, rather than replacing it by an option-based one.
Quite obviously this would require some additional work. However, this seems to be much more feasible than a truly intuitive freeform system that also works with broken english.
Speaking of unfinished things. I am not sure if restricting access to areas is such a great idea, both right now and in the future. Especially now there is rather few content, so artificially restricting access to it means locking major parts of the game. It's similar to having access to glyph combos, but more elementary and more significant. It also makes less sense as, as has been stated, you can easily find a way into any area that is not watched like a fortress. Especially at nighttime, I think one could sneak in or fly in or dive in or climb in (the winch area itself may be fenced off, but certainly not the entire center hole).
To be honest, I'd much rather "make my own quest" like this than asking NPCs hoping they might give me permission (unlikely, even if only by accident).
Anyway, I think that it's too early to lock areas.
This brings me to the lockout-timer: this doesn't integrate seamlessly at all, and there isn't a real reason for it, anyway. Firstly, we all know that each and every task would realistically be given only once or twice. Then we also know that we must treat every player equally, and therefore not only give the quest one time, to one character.
So a lockout timer tries to make for a sense of exclusiveness, but it doesn't do a really good job at it. If worse comes to worse, it even emphasizes the mechanics instead of hiding them, because instead of a few people doing the same quest, you get a bunch of people at the same NPC, waiting. This problem will obviously lessen once the initial inrush is gone, but in this case I think the timer won't even be required anymore. In a way, this is the quest-equivalent of spawn-camping.
Quite obviously the same quest should be available to the same character only once (or at least based on some realism; I don't think one should be able to get the pet quest more than once, at all, while the rat infestation can be a frequent thing, even per character). However, different characters should not need to queue up for things that are otherwise designed as individual instances that can be paralellized arbitrarily.
IOW, it doesn't make sense to me: The game pretends that I am the only one to ever get that quest. However, I know that I am not, and others may even RP that quest, and then there will be "Oh, I'm doing the same thing!" (Which is why I never refer to specific quests in my RP; if anything, I add the general idea behind the quest to my char's perception of the NPCs involved). So quests IMO integrate with either MM or RPG, but not both. This means that unless a solution for this problem is found, there is no reason to serialize characters onto a quest.
On a more general quest related note, there was the problem that quests block NPCs for other quests. If this isn't fixed, then some people may get more or less permanently locked out.
I'm not sure if it helps, and I think this is more or less the way everyone feels about it, but I suppose adding why I personally don't do a lot of quests doesn't hurt.
- Quests can't often be used in RP
- I'd rather RP
- one can't deviate (quest items can't often be used as expected)
- extreme linearity (need to do X before NPC Y will even recognise the question; need to reiterate the entire dialog if you restated the start phrase, can't refer to different, unrelated quests at the same NPC)
- NPC interaction is too tedious (as explained above, plus you never know if the NPC knows what you have said and what you haven't, one can't refer to different points of the dialog chain without losing NPC memory)
- things have a very static and impersonal feeling (NPCs don't even recognise you, regardless of how many quests you have done for them; maybe this will change with the "NPC reputation")
Please note that this isn't intended as a put-down or somesuch. I know it's infinitely much easier to come up with why one dslikes something than is to make it better, even if only slightly. It is really just stating my reasons for informational purposes.
-
All npc dialog and quests are written by the settings devs so that means they are part of the setting of the game.
-
You bring up an interesting point: if you get a "I don't need anything from you now", you really don't know if a possible quest has a prerequisite, or if the playerlockout is in the middle, in RP terms: you don't know if the NPC doesn't trust you enough or if he really doesn't need anything at the present time.
The playerlockout is made to have NPCs look a bit more real, so that harnquist will ask for a new sandwitch every 30 minutes and not every second, but surely this technique shows his limits in a case like the winch level release. Here the problem is that everyone wants to go there at the same time, just because it has been just released. This will not happen over time, and players will not arrive to that point in the game all at the same time
Criticism is well accepted, make us think to what we have to fix. Nonetheless we already have a todo list so long that's not possible to have the perfect game in few weeks. In general don't force the game, if the NPC tells you that he doesn't need help, just go away and do something else, return after few hours. Pushing the game with continuous "can I help you?" is not something that will solve the puzzle, and is not something that we will enable as a tool to solve our puzzles. Play without rush, there is no point in powerleveling in PS.
-
Hear is 3 very simple questions to ask a NPC.
[img=http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/364/shot01sa5.th.jpg] (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot01sa5.jpg)
Note on hummer side, were is the tree? ;D
-
I like Seytra's idea about having 'hints'.
I mean, most games dumb down quests to accomodate the broader audiences... whereas you guys alienate most of the players for not being geniuses :P
Besides, I thought 7 year olds were supposed to be able to play this. Why else would 'damn' be bleeped out? :P
-
We have many hopes, perhaps in time ps will actually be an education in and of itself. Bear with us. Go gently. :love:
Edit. The Entry to the winch is more difficult than you now assume. Doing the same thing over and over in a loop will not change anything.
-
/me abandons ever going to the Winch.
NPCs know a bit about keywords, I am assuming. If they could detect certain words out of a phase that they do understand -much like a search engine-, then recycle them back in the from of a leading yes or no question, that would be a giant step towards greater understanding and realism.
Example: to NPC "Hello, Harn, I was on my way to the Magic shop to finish this quest, but got lost. Do you know the way?"
Harn would gather all of the words he understands out of that phrase and plug them into his list of responses, then chose a follow-up question to narrow it down. He knows 'hello' as a standard greeting, so ignores it for now. He knows 'way' 'magic' 'shop' 'quest' 'lost' and 'do you'. Now, he is obviously not going to understand this question as it is, so he grabs up the words and compares them to his list.
'Quest' and 'do you' would fit in with asking him for a quest, but that is only two words, so gets a low hit number.
'Do you' 'Magic' and 'Way' could lead to info he knows about the Glyphs. Three hits. Getting closer.
'Magic + shop' 'do you' 'way' gives him the cue to give directions, but he is not sure yet, so replies: "Hello there! (as response to your hello) Are you asking the way to the Magic shop?
Now, if you were not asking to go to the Magic Shop, you say no. He then goes back to his list of matches, and asks about the next most likely or asks you for more information on what you want. Even if he does not know what you are talking about, it gives the illusion of intelligence.
But we do want to go to the magic Shop, so we say "Why yes I am."
He picks up on 'why' and 'yes'. Given the question he just asked you, he picks out 'yes' as the keyword, and responds "Well, that's easy, you just go past the old yeller groffel, ya know the one Trayosk used to own. Though come to think of it, he does not have the little beast anymore..."
And yes, I understand how time consuming that would be to create. Perhaps that is what is already intended.
-
I can't understand something... Is anybody here remembers good old 1985 ? Remember old adventure games on 8-bit computers? Let's say "The neverending story" for Atari XL. The game could understand simple commands as well as something like "Pick up food, leave hut, take Artax and ride east". In one sentence. Everything could be described in many ways. And that game was running on 8-bit machine with 64 kB (KILO bytes, not mega or giga!) RAM and processor running at 1.78 MHz (not 3GHz). These games were created often by one person, not a team. They were created in less then 6 months sometimes. Or "The Hobbit" for ZX Spectrum. 16kB RAM. Z80 processor. Every character in game lives his own live in real time and interacts with a player. I remember program shipped with SoundBlaster 2.0. You could talk with it about anything. On 286 PC. It's a shame we can't have something like that in PlaneShift after 5 years of development. I hope you will change it soon.... even soonTM
-
I don't really have problems with the npcs. They understand me, more or less. About the winch quest? I'll try it again in march :D
-
I've got access to Winch with several inhabitants [chars] within a short time [below a half hour].
Winch itself is a bit empty, but interesting to explore. It looks like a bit as "Hydlaa Jayose" with the lonelyness of "Bronce Doors". I don't want to say to much, but it looks like an upcomming great area and I'm very happy that we've got access to it. Thanks a lot.
-
I can't understand something... Is anybody here remembers good old 1985 ? Remember old adventure games on 8-bit computers? Let's say "The neverending story" for Atari XL. The game could understand simple commands as well as something like "Pick up food, leave hut, take Artax and ride east". In one sentence. Everything could be described in many ways. And that game was running on 8-bit machine with 64 kB (KILO bytes, not mega or giga!) RAM and processor running at 1.78 MHz (not 3GHz). These games were created often by one person, not a team. They were created in less then 6 months sometimes. Or "The Hobbit" for ZX Spectrum. 16kB RAM. Z80 processor. Every character in game lives his own live in real time and interacts with a player. I remember program shipped with SoundBlaster 2.0. You could talk with it about anything. On 286 PC. It's a shame we can't have something like that in PlaneShift after 5 years of development. I hope you will change it soon.... even soonTM
Those are some very good examples. It makes me wonder why such a simple system couldnt be used in PS. How difficult would it be to convert one such program into the PS system. I believe there are a few freeware programs out there that would handle this task very well. I have even seen some chatroom bots that seemed to be very inteligent, and most always understood what you were saying. I dont know if this type of system is already in place, it could be that it was just set up this way.
No offence intended here, but it seems that the person responsible for the NPC dialog was not a native to the english language. I know the Dev team has some new members in the settings department, and most of the NPC text will be rewritten at some point, but will the mechanics of the NPC chat system stay the same?
It is very frustrating for people who do not have a lot of time to play. Even some of the simplest quests can take a long time if you dont know the correct wording. I am lucky enough to know a lot of people who have completed most, if not all the quests, so I have the guidence of their experience. Even then I feel as a burden to them, for taking so much of their time.
Anyways, it will be interesting to see how the system will change along the way. We are an impatient bunch and (http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i10/LARAGORN/smileys/Soon.gif) seems to take forever. :P
-
My issue with all this; yea frikin right!! as IF people individually 'stumble' upon this quest. So many seem to admit to spamming in efforts to get the quest. Guess what? that means these people knew the 'reward' before getting it, or at least thought innocently that there 'might' another quest here (if we pretend i'd believe that). Is there anyone here who honestly thinks it matters less that people are spoiling quests in that regard than when the way to finish/do a quest is spoiled?-- the riddles & stuff, yea spoiling ruins them, but the ones where you just have to say the exact (currently not the most elegant system to put it mildly) right thing & hope you don't say the wrong thing & break your quest-- obviously have been solved by so many because so many got help, and as it is, until things are improved, it's inevitable that so many would need help to get through many quests... but that so many of us are aware of what quest does what because people just go around sharing info--that seems like a far bigger spoiler than sharing ifo about how to get through grammar issues etc of a quest they found on their own.. Anybody seen an energy glyph sell for nearly the price of other quest-glyphs lately?(ok yea occasionally, but less & less al the time)-- you think that many new players just happen to 'guess' how to get the right quest triggered etc?--or there are that many being given out for free?-- or that so few want one?
My point is to say it makes sense to be able to ask npcs about what rewards you seek & have them hint you in the right direction..
as it stands I would need to be on very expensive drugs to believe that even 50% of people with various helms, non buyable glyphs & other reward items (such as this "key") just 'happened' to trigger their quests without prior knowledge, forgetting about how they got thru the quests... THe attitude which says that kind of spoiling is okay is a big part of what fosters all out spoiling. Not that i mind spoilers at all. But if everyone is anti-spoilers then i can't help but assume at least 50% of people who 'earned' helms, non buyable glyphs, and entrance to the winch thru quests are somewhat hypocritical...
-
Note:
Some players got into the winch on an exploit, this has been fixed.
No one will get the second quest raithen offers by spamming the same thing over and over. You must take an alternative path. If you are still sitting there spamming raithen, stop and re-evaluate your approach.
-
But if everyone is anti-spoilers then i can't help but assume at least 50% of people who 'earned' helms, non buyable glyphs, and entrance to the winch thru quests are somewhat hypocritical...
I didn't finish a single glyph quest and bought all of them. It is not spoiling. I buy what the market has to offer. I also didn't enter the winch. And i would have to be on serious drugs to think that most glyphs which are sold on the market are all made from a doing the given quest only once. And spoilers are mostly because it is the only way for 90% of people to make a quest.
To pass an exam you need over 50% of the points (generally) everything below this is not acceptable. Now look at the quests system and tell me it is working, while it is working in 10%, it is 5 times worse than bad.
And i'm a damn anti-spoiler, so far... I never look for exact answers to my guild personal spoilers database like you do Omnis it looks. It spoils the whole concept, only if it is not working, from other side, maybe you can't spoil something what isnt there.
-
nikodemus how many times do i have to ask you not to reply to my posts?
seriously. it's enough, stop.
Every time you do I have trouble understanding your broken english- half the time i can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing (giving the impression that you may not even understand that to which you are replying)
And more to the point every time it seems like in the parts i do understand:
I never look for exact answers to my guild personal spoilers database like you do Omnis it looks.
you are tossing a judgement or accusation or some other unsolicited unfounded negative sentiment directed at me.
do me a favor, stop posting the negative assumptions/judgements/assessments/accusations directed at me or just heed the requests I've made the last several times you've replied directly to something i've said and simply refrain from replying to my posts at all.
-
Is it not obvious what they are thinking? They make a new area thats supposedly only for a select few that are permitted to enter. If it was wide open the place would have been totally packed. That would have been ludacriously against what the settings say about it. Lets face it, if they included a new field in an update everyone would be there. There is no other way to slowly distribute access.
No other way huh?
So like restricting it to people with-for instance- maxed cha and int wouldn't work. Or restricting it to people with any number of pre-qualifiers wouldn't work huh?
If you truly believe there is "no other way" then your imagination is seriously lacking.
-
My philosophy about spoilers is to try to find quests on my own, try to do them when I find them and only ask for help if I cannot find them or work them. I find long lists of quests generally boring and while I might browse such a list I'd use it first to see who might have a quest for me or where I might get an item and only step by step if I had trouble from there. I mostly do not have time for complicated tricks and whatever. I have not joined a guild just to troll (fishing) their info because I do not have much interest in guilds otherwise and I have done few quests due to the difficulty speaking with npcs although that is getting better so the future looks hopeful.
-
No other way huh?
So like restricting it to people with-for instance- maxed cha and int wouldn't work. Or restricting it to people with any number of pre-qualifiers wouldn't work huh?
If you truly believe there is "no other way" then your imagination is seriously lacking.
You would really restrict it by how much people have leveled your stats?
-
Restricting areas before a reputation system is coded is something like plainly incentivating OOC mass-questing(30 people talking to the same NPC trying their luck, very immersive). Also giving a 100% linear single way to earn access to such places won't be a nice idea eitehr.
-
Restricting areas before a reputation system is coded is something like plainly incentivating OOC mass-questing(30 people talking to the same NPC trying their luck, very immersive). Also giving a 100% linear single way to earn access to such places won't be a nice idea eitehr.
we are just getting warm and players are impatient. For now there is one way only. I do not expect it shall remain so. \\o//
-
No other way huh?
So like restricting it to people with-for instance- maxed cha and int wouldn't work. Or restricting it to people with any number of pre-qualifiers wouldn't work huh?
If you truly believe there is "no other way" then your imagination is seriously lacking.
You would really restrict it by how much people have leveled your stats?
That represents their inherent traits and skills, their "societal eliteness." INDEED it is those with high Cha, and Int that would be in a position to gain admittance to intellectual and political circles.
And i find it funny that some want combat to be "determined by character skill" yet when it comes to gaining acceptance with the social elite stats should mean nothing?
Thou dost maketh no sense, brother of the realm.
-
But by the amount of people that do role play and don't have the stats vs. the amount of people that don't even have a character in the proper sence of the word but have every stat maxed it makes little sense for now. Once the systems reworked by all means do it. I don't want to have to go totally OOC and hack at rouges for hours to get into an area I should be in IC.
-
But by the amount of people that do role play and don't have the stats vs. the amount of people that don't even have a character in the proper sence of the word but have every stat maxed it makes little sense for now. Once the systems reworked by all means do it. I don't want to have to go totally OOC and hack at rouges for hours to get into an area I should be in IC.
If i may make an observation based on the "two camps" of PS, the doers and the RPers, Some of the self-defined "RPers" seem to think they should get a free ride from leveling or learning to actually fight because they "RP".
A character with high charisma and intelligence would have a prohibitive edge over gaining admittance into elite circles. A character who spends his whole life "RPing" without actually DOING THINGS IN GAME TO GAIN REPUTE AND SKILL is a very peculliar creature indeed.
My character has maxed charisma and intelligence. She is a "Super model and rocket-scientist" rolled into one, not to mention a fierce and well respected(and apprently very well known already) warrior as well.
OBVIOUSLY such a character would be the one to gain admittance before a "level 1 weakling" who does nothing all day but talk about the things that others actually DO. :)
If there is no point in stats, then simply eliminate them(and the majority of the player base at the same time).
The Game some of you seem to want can already be accomplished on an instant messaging program or fantasy based BB. To truly RP all you need is a blank sheet of paper and an imagination.
When i was growing up playing D&D, that's ALL we had. Times change, technology improves.
Now we are fortunate to "have it all rolled into one."
-
If i may make an observation based on the "two camps" of PS, the doers and the RPers, Some of the self-defined "RPers" seem to think they should get a free ride from leveling or learning to actually fight because they "RP".
A character with high charisma and intelligence would have a prohibitive edge over gaining admittance into elite circles. A character who spends his whole life "RPing" without actually DOING THINGS IN GAME TO GAIN REPUTE AND SKILL is a very peculliar creature indeed.
My character has maxed charisma and intelligence. She is a "Super model and rocket-scientist" rolled into one, not to mention a fierce and well respected(and apprently very well known already) warrior as well.
OBVIOUSLY such a character would be the one to gain admittance before a "level 1 weakling" who does nothing all day but talk about the things that others actually DO. :)
If there is no point in stats, then simply eliminate them(and the majority of the player base at the same time).
The Game some of you seem to want can already be accomplished on an instant messaging program or fantasy based BB. To truly RP all you need is a blank sheet of paper and an imagination.
When i was growing up playing D&D, that's ALL we had. Times change, technology improves.
Now we are fortunate to "have it all rolled into one."
As far as I know, you are free to play the game in the way that best suits you. I personally like to keep my stats and RP somewhat related but there's nothing wrong in not training at all or not RPing at all. It's limiting in a way but if that is how you want to play, then you're free to do so. Keep in mind that whatever you do, you got as much right to have fun as the next player.
Anything that is RPed is "granted" by the players around you. If you claim to be a powerful magician only those around you can grant you that. That's because the game mechanics at the moment do not support many skills. Even if you're maxed out in all magic ways, if your RP is deficient or inconsistent, others are not likely to see you as a great wizard.
Same goes with looks and smarts. You are not the only one with maxed stats, so it's not particularly special. I remember a character claiming to be "the most beautiful female in Yliakum". She was the only one who thought that. Maybe she did have an incredibly high charisma, but if the community doesn't agree to it, it doesn't exist.
I think stats are a good reference but you can't make things black or white, especially at the current state of development. It's a matter of balance.
In the particular case of the winch, I doubt personal RP or stats will grant you access or should by any means. How can you measure someone's RP to consider it satisfactory? Who would do that? It would be a subjective thing and open the door for lots of complaints.
-
I gotta agree with VR, this whole division of text vs mechanics, or players vs roleplayers, is becomming more & more of a pivotal matter dividing the populace...
As I've said before, my experience with rp before this game is limited at best... That being said I recall those rp games on paper, no one would ever start as a very powerful character... they would have a certain potential maximum levels/ranks to start at based on dice rolls or doled out points (like our cp) & beyond that they would be required to succeed at tasks that would earn appropriate experience, at the discretion of their Game Master (like having to earn progression points & trias & practice points at discretion Game Mechanics)...
Before this game, in my albeit limited experiences, i had never heard of a roleplay game where people get to decide their own strengths & skills beyond base beginner sorts of levels in relation to those of others, without someone or something else making final decision... Well, unless you count playing make believe - or maybe the more kinky sort of role-playing...
But i gotta ask--if the idea is to make believe & ignore mechanics when 'rp'ing--then this topic is moot for you, isn't it? : you can rp that you are really at the winch rather than whatever map sector you are in and it should matter as little as your actual stats & skills do...right?...
And also gotta ask: regarding "testers first, players second"; what does text only rp test? the server's chat capacities?
These are rhetorical questions, but i'm guessing people will respond as if they weren't...
-
If i may make an observation based on the "two camps" of PS, the doers and the RPers, Some of the self-defined "RPers" seem to think they should get a free ride from leveling or learning to actually fight because they "RP".
A character with high charisma and intelligence would have a prohibitive edge over gaining admittance into elite circles. A character who spends his whole life "RPing" without actually DOING THINGS IN GAME TO GAIN REPUTE AND SKILL is a very peculliar creature indeed.
My character has maxed charisma and intelligence. She is a "Super model and rocket-scientist" rolled into one, not to mention a fierce and well respected(and apprently very well known already) warrior as well.
OBVIOUSLY such a character would be the one to gain admittance before a "level 1 weakling" who does nothing all day but talk about the things that others actually DO. :)
If there is no point in stats, then simply eliminate them(and the majority of the player base at the same time).
The Game some of you seem to want can already be accomplished on an instant messaging program or fantasy based BB. To truly RP all you need is a blank sheet of paper and an imagination.
When i was growing up playing D&D, that's ALL we had. Times change, technology improves.
Now we are fortunate to "have it all rolled into one."
Some of these 'doers' spend no time interacting with other characters but have all stats maxed. Should they get in before the people that are known in the community but don't have the time to hack a rouge to death fifty times a day? And I don't think there are many that stand around and talk about people camping enemies in the arena. That's a bit silly.
-
OK Krann, "Testers first, Players(And ROLEPLAYERS)" second!
I'll make a guild called "Beta-testers" with characters named "TestSubject1" "TestSubject2", etc and we will challenge all the limits of the engine, run around, make a mess over it!
-
Well however you access the winch, it goes against any sort ideals that PS has always gone by in the past.. It would seem that the developers are moving the goal posts all of a sudden. {thats thier perogative} I am a well established player and have ben for a few years now. It now seems that it doesnt matter what your stats are, or how good you RP. If you want to access the winch you must become a power leveler and a mind reader all at the same time. with no clues AT ALL we are expected to go around trying to find the right combination of quests to acces the new areas. Some of the new quests REQUIRE that your char has maxed stats in order to partake. and with the new economy that could take many many weeks for some people. New players are not going to want to do this as it doesnt add, but takes away any of the fun of playing.
Also someone mention earlier about the fact that this game is also aimed at children.. i can catagoricaly prove that is deffinitly not so.. I gave my 10 year old a fresh char today.. Now what you have to understan is that she reads novels and is very advanced for her age. She read the player guide first, as I asked, then started playing.. befor long she was asking me for help in understanding some of the games features, i then pointed her in the direction of an NPC that "give me a quest" doesnt work with but does have a quest.. Now remember she read the player guide and knew that she should talk with the NPC's.. 15 mins she was at the NPC befor i finaly told her what to say. "Thats stupid, noone talks like that" she said.
i know i am going to get ripped to pieces by some of the idiots that frequent these forums, but i just had to say that whatever you guys are thinking about access to the new area is simply rediculous, a joke even.. i am an ineligent person, and i know many people IG that are really inteligent and understand the games quest system much better tha I do, and even they are stumped..
Come on guys get your act together..
Proteous waits for the insults to come flying
-
Just to add some things:
Rich characters that would have access to the Winch won't commonly do menial errands for others(Most quests are such)
There's no "underground" way to reach the Winch
If it really depends on maxed Stats as Proteous, it contradicts fully the nature of PS as a roleplay focused game. This quest then is better for a game like *cough* Runescape.
-
If access to the winch requires a certain "level" or "renown" within the community it would be too hard to establish a fair rule that is congruent to the original idea behind the game. Getting a quest seems to be a good start but there shouldn't be any stat related requirements. Everyone can say "give me a quest". Making it hard to get it by some sort of "window of opportunity" is not, in my opinion, a bad thing necessarily. Part of trying to be realistic is that you can't enter anywhere you want or do everything there is to do with only one character.
Tweaking the NPC IQ and the chat system are things that affect everything in the game, not just this particular quest. The difference is this one puts the problem in the spotlight. So much work!
-
Roleplayers versus Powerlevelers
Roleplayers versus Duelers...
I love the seperation. It's what makes this community so fun to poke around with.
But think of it this way, how long should it take to become beautiful? You've got to trimm the fat, sculpt the muscle, find the hairstyle, buy the clothes...the list goes on. But, Valorius, how long did it take for you to max out charisma? 4 days? 5?
Same goes for intelligence, although, I'd say moreso. You shouldn't really be able to level intelligence noticably, but that's a whole other discussion.
And, the same goes for most of those skills.
Roleplayers who do nothing but talk are exactly that. Characters in this world who, probably due to game mechanics, have nothing to do. They won't mine, they are roleplaying a more "refined character", they won't fight, they are playing a pacifist. I have nothing against these Roleplayers, although...they should have completed plenty of the quests.
Then you have Roleplayers who train. This is where a line is drawn, if you were training, how many beasts would you kill daily? I imagine it is a fraction of how many you actualy kill. This is where people come in with "My character is a warrior", yeah, well, so is pretty much every other character. And if you are into combat and such, let me tell you this. There is very little chance that there will be much more focus on it. Talad wants the game to focus more on roleplaying people than roleplaying heroes. Atleast, that's what I gathered from a conversation we had recently (I won't quote now, I don't have his permission).
The best "warrior" Roleplayers balance the talking and the training, the worst ignore the talking and fighting hard for worst place are those who ignore the training.
These are rhetorical questions, but i'm guessing people will respond as if they weren't...
Haha, nice to see you don't have any dellusions when it comes to the community :)
Your point is a good one but you shouldn't use testing as an excuse to become an amazingy powerful character. I have a character who I barely use, he's there for testing out the bugs that might change my stats or inventory and so forth. He doesn't interact at all IC and he avoids pretty much everybody, logging in only to check something Nurahk found and logging out the second the job is complete. He's been deleted twice :P
Using the excuse "I'm testing the leveling system" is the same as "I found this exploit that gave my character 700 strength": It's using OOC means to further your IC character.
-
Oh and one other thing, when examining the doors to the winch, they tell you to go see Raithen.. however when asked about the winch, he has no idea what you are talking about!.. go figure.
-
The RP vs Powerleveler thing is old. The game is going to decide it as it develops, not the bickering. But I like what they did with the Winch. It took me a long time to really get into the quest system. Now that I have, I rather like it. Fishing for responses from the npcs is interesting, and not that hard, as they all seem to follow certain patternings of words. It is proper that the winch should be accessed by a quest. I would expect that certain quests will take stats and skills in the future to allow for different branchings within the storyline based on character development. I imagine that this is planned, and it would be interesting. Actually, the quests and settings (and architecture!) implied by the NPCs in the winch have really added another level of depth to the game that I am definitely enjoying. Its good work.
-
Bs, how long did it take for you to max out charisma? 4 days? 5?
I'd say 20 years in public relation activities like speeches, etc. And also 10 years leading an organization by pure charisma, without the need of using authoritarian methods. A really charismatic individual can convince lots people to embrace even one of the most inhuman and brutal ideas like this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler) ( Easier if supported by a whole propaganda network of course).
Same goes for intelligence, although, I'd say moreso. You shouldn't really be able to level intelligence noticably, but that's a whole other discussion.
If "Intelligence" means both intellectual capacity and knowledge on several general theoretical fields, it should be allowed to increase largely, otherwise it would require so serious development through logical games, etc. and have its effect based on the age of the character(younger ones have greater potential for increasing their intellect than adults).
-
[to clarify lordraleigh-- tho i think you understood & chose to pretend you didn't for humor-- but just in case: I didn't mean my mention of 'testers first' to be interpreted to mean that EXCLUSIVELY testing is the first priority & that a person should ignore playing/roleplaying.
-- i was simply trying to convey that testing supposedly is everyone's 'primary role'--and that EXCLUSIVELY "rp"ing, the way some seem to be saying they do ignores their responsibility as testers & to a degree, ignores fairness to those players who spend time & effort on raising skills rather than arbitrarily assigning whatever they please]
[And Nurahk, would you mind making the following edit:Your point is a good one but you shouldn't use testing as an excuse to become an amazingy powerful character.
To instead say "Your point is a good one but PEOPLE shouldn't use testing as an excuse to become an amazingy powerful character. "--seeing as the way it reads right now seems like i'm doing what you are describing as shouldn't be done]
/me pats proteous on the back
-
Haha, you shouldn't either :P
I'm sorry for the confusion though, and instead of editing that one post let's just put it this way.
"You" is always a general you for me in debates. I didn't mean it as an insult, it's just the way I speak.
If I'm addressing somebody specific, I use their name.
Sorry for the confusion.
-
anyone given any thought to the plus side of having a region not everyone can or will enter?
-
The only time where that would be a plus, would be a map that new players would start at and leave when they reach a point at which they outgrow it. i.e. a training map so to speak. A map where players that have been playing for four years and still cant get to is rediculous!
-
Couldn't you remove the lock-out feature just until the surge of people slow down?
-
I disagree with you eldoth_terevan. While some may appriciate trying to communicate with moronic NPC's I always thought the quests should be about acomplishing things. I don't mind a few games of "guess the phrase", but it gets old quickly. Not only is it OOC as a trillian people have pointed out, but its downright stupid. One of the problems I see is that in order to make the quests difficult they do not require doing actual things ingame very much, instead they make it difficult by making the appropriate phrase totally counterintuitive. Instead of responding to the questions we all will end up asking, they only respond to a very specific and strange phrase in many cases. Its the reason I quit doing quests. I explored the whinch area using walktest instead. Thats far more fun anyways.
Honestly, fill the quests with more challenging puzzles ingame. The hard part should be figuring out where to locate this or that, not what phrase do I use with what NPC to get the item or trinket or whatever. If I wanted to play word games with extremely stupid AI then I'd write some qbasic Q&A game.
-
Oh and one other thing, probably dealt with in another thread somewhere, but finding it is another thing.. When a quest gets disguarded for one reason or another, how long must one wait befor it can be gotten again? its just i been trying for the last 2 week to get a quest that was previously bugged that i disguarded. I ask because maybe i need it to gain access to the winch.. But i wouldnt know because there are no hints!
-
Yikes. Nest of bees, I'm telling you...
/me hands Xillix, Jeraphon, and Kerol some helmets.
-
Oh, people disagree with me all of the time. But if it was that bad, I prolly wouldn't play. Peace.
-
/me sighs.
The problem is not with the quests. It is with the system they are contained in. The system of talking to NPCs is flawed, and has been from the beginning. You simply can not talk to the NPCs -as- -your- -character. No amount of word similizing will help with that.
The Settings folk are putting a TREMENDOUS amount of work into trying to make the quests accessible to more than just one particular phase. But they simply can not come up with all of the word combinations and orders that mean the same thing. It is crazy to even ask them for it. What they need is a new system to build on, not this raft of sticks and twigs.
I love a good, hard riddle in a game. But I have likened the way things are done now to purchasing a Rubik’s Cube, then having to spend half an hour trying to rip the hard plastic wrapper off with your teeth.
Quests should be hard.
Entering some areas should be hard, and getting back out again harder.
Fighting tough creatures should be very hard.
Making an NPC understand that you are asking a simple question should not be.
So yes, I am saying the NPC speech system should be scrapped. Before anyone starts screaming about all the work that would be lost in doing so, I give you two words: Molecular Blue.
-
Yikes. Nest of bees, I'm telling you...
/me hands Xillix, Jeraphon, and Kerol some helmets.
It's all good, Karyuu. I'm glad people are actually discussing quests for a change.
-
Though i do agree with you UTM that doesnt answer any of the questions regarding the winch and how to gain access.. I am currently frustrated because i know there are quests i have not done, but noone can tell me why the NPC's wont issue them to me.
-
I'm having the same problem as you Proteous. Getting a bugged quest makes you mad enough but than not being able to get it back is even worse. The quests for the most part are interesting and I love doing them. However, they can drive you crazy with all the bugs and overall the quest system just does not work. I haven't been able to tell any pattern in the amount of time that it takes you to attain the quest again. It seems like it is completely random, but I could be wrong. I just try to make a trip back to the npcs each day and see if I can get it back.
I don't know how long it will be until I can finally do the Winch quest. The funny thing is the npc that gives that quest made me do his other quests, which I had already done earlier. It required me to do them over again because it had been so long since I had completed them. Sure enough his other quest became bugged. Now I am left to waiting until I can restart his first quests. These quests are a great thing to do but unless the system to do them becomes less flawed I will have to take a break from them.
-
If anyone would like to make a Wishlist thread on "My Perfect Quest System," please feel free to. It will help out the development team a lot more than the current "This just doesn't work" pattern :] Remember, suggestions make complaints sound a lot better.
-
Oh i love doing quests, and sometimes the bugs make them more fun, so dont think i am mindlessly whining, im not!! i understand that the devs have a great deal of work, and i would never EXPECT anything from a free to play game, i only get annoyed when things like this happen, where as i have done all the quests that are IG currently apart from the ones NPC's refuse to give me. I am sure that in time i will get there and eventualy the NPC's will give me the quests.. I am only moaning this time becaus i have been in game for nearly 4 years with never more than a 4 week break.. Dont get me wrong i dont feel that the game owes me, but i do feel that i deserve the right to access the new area.. i know of noobs that can get in.. i am sure you can forgive me for feeling a little put out by this.
-
I'm not saying that anyone is whining here - I do agree that quest complaints are valid. It's just that having a thread specifically for improvement suggestions of the quest system would actually be a big help :]
-
If anyone would like to make a Wishlist thread on "My Perfect Quest System," please feel free to. It will help out the development team a lot more than the current "This just doesn't work" pattern :] Remember, suggestions make complaints sound a lot better.
Well I would love too, but I don't have the slightest clue on how quest systems work in games. However, I will post some suggestions that I can:
The quests should not restart for npcs that have more than one quest. After the time had passed when you can get them again you should have to ask for that certain one again. Another idea for this is that for npcs who have more than one quest you should be required to finish them all before any of them restarts. These are just some ideas. The main point is they should make it simplier to get quests you haven't done.
The npcs should give us a better explaination of why we can't do the quest. If we say something that doesn't make sense they should tell us. If enough time hasn't elapsed they should tell us soemthing to that effect. It is frustrating to not know the exact reason why it is not working.
It would be nice if the quests didn't become bugged. I have no clue why they do or I would be trying something different. This game is a work in progress so we must deal with the bugs. However, this is something that does need fixed sometime down the road for the quests to work smoothly.
There needs to be a lot of work with talking to the npcs. Like I stated I don't know anything about how hard this is or what it requires. A system to where the npc says something and than you use his words to continue the conversation would work. Example: You can find Harnquist in Hydlaa. Than you say Where is Hydlaa?
There are many different systems that would work, this is just one expample. All I know is that the current system for the most part is a complete guess and not being able to say regular phrases to them does make it hard.
-
I don't have any issues with quests, the only thing I feel is that if some quest rewards are access to new areas, then there should always be alternatives of getting in, as for my character it would be OOC for him to go round doing quests.
Obvioulsy there may be an area thats so secure and locked up that the only way in, is to do a quest, but if thats the case it would be OOC for my character to go there anyway, so it doesn't matter.
-
I agree with Moony. Why can't we have a new system, with context-sensitive multiple-choice answers or something, like most games?
-
becuase context sensitve multiple guess menus are harder to write the data for... atleast according to some of the stuff that i've read.
-
becuase context sensitve multiple guess menus are harder to write the data for... atleast according to some of the stuff that i've read.
Swiming the channel is very hard, but can be done, climbing mountains is very difficult, but can be done, Making a game from scratch is almost impossible for non professionals, BUT hay look are wonderful dev team IS doing it.
Nothing is impossible if you put your mind to it, and have the right tools and person for the job.
-
Gak, no. No multiple choice. That is just putting more words into the mouths of our characters. I have made my suggestions already (on page three, which went unnoticed). Parsing the text and searching for responses or leading questions is a better way to go, and far more organic and natural.
-
Ok I had to go to work, so the first half of this post will seem out of continuity, as i would like first to reply to Xillix's question & Proteous' reply:--I should first say, I have been playing nearly a year I think it would be THE BEST way/reason to restrict an area if it were the opposite of what proteous suggested: an area only accessible to characters with a certain amount of time in game or existed long enough. And i mentionned i have only been playing under a year to make the point i would fully suppot making it a minimum 2 year character or such.. I think that would not only give the seniority & privelledge these people who have been along for more of the ride have earned. Also, and to me an even more pertinent point, if one day the game were "complete" and there would be no more additions or updates etc; areas locked out by time characters have existed/played leaves the game with that same feeling off novelty & anticipation/suspense that we have become addicted to when there are updates: as seen here where even if it makes us bonkers we love it.
I'm not sure if anyone's mentionned it, not that i'd blame anyone for being hesitant... but a lot of people when their quests bug/break etc, will try to complete the quest with an alt, seeing as they can just get the item from the alt--- mind you i don't do this, i just throw a hissy fit & turn off my comp & resolve not to play ps, then i get bored & turn on ps & resolve never to do quests.... that vow usually lasts from the first day of an update with new quests, till the next one... So instead i buy-- point is-- can a person sell a key or lend a key to the winch? if not I'd be petrified to even try to get the quest for fear if it bugs/breaks i would never be able to enter.. (which ironically would be the same as the result of not trying for fear of that reesult)
not sure what i'd put on the ideal quest ideas list... maybe i'll try when not about to sleep
-
Gak, no. No multiple choice. That is just putting more words into the mouths of our characters. I have made my suggestions already (on page three, which went unnoticed). Parsing the text and searching for responses or leading questions is a better way to go, and far more organic and natural.
how can you say unoticed?
:sorcerer:
-
I should first say, I have been playing nearly a year I think it would be THE BEST way/reason to restrict an area if it were the opposite of what proteous suggested: an area only accessible to characters with a certain amount of time in game or existed long enough. And i mentionned i have only been playing under a year to make the point i would fully suppot making it a minimum 2 year character or such..
if one day the game were "complete" and there would be no more additions or updates etc; areas locked out by time characters have existed/played leaves the game with that same feeling off novelty & anticipation/suspense that we have become addicted to when there are updates: as seen here where even if it makes us bonkers we love it.
Amount of time ingame and/or character age are not necessarily relative, since Garon has existed for a long time (a year or two iirc), since I made him in 0.3.013 (or earlier, this is the last version I remember playing--I do remember when Ojaveda was where BDroad2 is now though, if that tells you anything, and when there was a furnace to the right of the entrance, and smithing didn't work at all), but I'd say I have about as much time as someone who's been playing for a month or two, since I've only been playing Planeshift for that long after I came back, and I didn't play for long earlier. Garon probably would have come about earlier if I had managed to get the late atomic blue versions to work on my mac at the time I found the game (I've been following this game longer then I've been playing it). Character respect or the like because of how long a character existed doesn't really measure knowledge of the game Yet using time ingame seems very OOC to me, since it's a measure of how long you've played the game, and not of a character's respect in the game or the like.
From what I understand there will always be updates (and, again from what I understand, Planeshift won't be even a remotely static world anyways, so there will always be something new), so the claim that it would add new attractions isn't true, I think it would add just a lot of OOC "I need to play for a another 3 months to get into place x so that I can do task y" sorts of ideas in people's playing methods.
---
I think the current quest system just needs to be standardized across all quests, something that I've seen being done, and give us the basic syntax of the quest statements (the way to use about, give me, give, etc.). I haven't had much trouble with quests once I understood the basic syntax of how to ask for something and how to ask about something, although sometimes I have to resort to trial and error.
-
you raise some potentilly valid points... but;
Just like a person sometimes must be a documented citizen for x amount of time in reality to get priveledges a, b or c-that said, i think there is nothing ooc about needing to have existed in some measurable way, as a citizen within certain areas before more secure areas might allow your entry... Time existed or time ingame vs knowledge of the game?-- that's not really the point. Anyone could have been playing the game 4 years & only roleplayed with their one & only friend, and they just do text roleplay so they have no knowledge of the game nor actual relation to the community. It's just a quick &easy way to assess a person's security clearance or such, just like real governments use... Like how when you are X hrs in you can auction or shout, or in the country of my american cousins you can vote when 18 and drink when you are 21 & rent a car at 25, and not be trusted over 30--regardless how many of those years were spent in comas or space shuttles or bomb shelters... Interesiingly certain rights/priveledges can be restricted if not enough time was spent within a place's borders, even tho it's no big to have lived in a cave within the same borders, as long as someone kept your records in order.
-
Time spent in game is easy to measure, but how valuable that time was is difficult to quantify. Measuring how well a player roleplays a merchant for instance as a means of accessing an area is a very difficult task. It is too subjective, too prone to favoritism. Dealing with access through some systematic means is more reasonable. Players may not like the systems chosen to do so, but should know we are listening to you and give due consideration to ideas that are additive.
About whether the npcs are organic or not, we are commited to improving this. Making decisions on how this is best accomplished from outside the team may miss some crucial aspects of internal developement.
Proteous PS values your contributions, be patient with this new area. Learn how to get in. We did move the goal posts. It is my hope to continue raising the bar as we proceed. I mean this both for the settings team and for the playerbase.
Keep the good ideas coming - save the vinegar for your salad's people.
-
* Under the moon abandons ever going to the Winch.
NPCs know a bit about keywords, I am assuming. If they could detect certain words out of a phase that they do understand -much like a search engine-, then recycle them back in the from of a leading yes or no question, that would be a giant step towards greater understanding and realism.
Example: to NPC "Hello, Harn, I was on my way to the Magic shop to finish this quest, but got lost. Do you know the way?"
Harn would gather all of the words he understands out of that phrase and plug them into his list of responses, then chose a follow-up question to narrow it down. He knows 'hello' as a standard greeting, so ignores it for now. He knows 'way' 'magic' 'shop' 'quest' 'lost' and 'do you'. Now, he is obviously not going to understand this question as it is, so he grabs up the words and compares them to his list.
'Quest' and 'do you' would fit in with asking him for a quest, but that is only two words, so gets a low hit number.
'Do you' 'Magic' and 'Way' could lead to info he knows about the Glyphs. Three hits. Getting closer.
'Magic + shop' 'do you' 'way' gives him the cue to give directions, but he is not sure yet, so replies: "Hello there! (as response to your hello) Are you asking the way to the Magic shop?
Now, if you were not asking to go to the Magic Shop, you say no. He then goes back to his list of matches, and asks about the next most likely or asks you for more information on what you want. Even if he does not know what you are talking about, it gives the illusion of intelligence.
But we do want to go to the magic Shop, so we say "Why yes I am."
He picks up on 'why' and 'yes'. Given the question he just asked you, he picks out 'yes' as the keyword, and responds "Well, that's easy, you just go past the old yeller groffel, ya know the one Trayosk used to own. Though come to think of it, he does not have the little beast anymore..."
And yes, I understand how time consuming that would be to create. Perhaps that is what is already intended.
It is odd the UtM's post went largely undiscussed. At least to me his system sounds very very promising. It could be done quite easily with a NPC database. You would need several. First would be a common knowledge database that all the npc's share. Then information specific to the npc could be stored in a seperate table. An interesting option arrises at this point. It is very difficult to get allllllll the words and phrases ironed out as UtM said, so I had a thought. For a certain period of time since this game is in testing, and testing is to help improve things, I propose that the npc's temporarly log all their conversations that are then put into a large DB or text file, wahtever. Someone could key through it (heck I'd do it) and use that as a reference to add new knowledge to the NPC's knowledge set. This opens up opportunities later on for NPC's eventually being able to remember phrases that are repeated over and over. Thus ingame events of notice would be remembered by the NPC's who heard about it. It would be fun to slay an ulbernaught in the plaza saving countless lives, and then travel to Akkaio only to hear an NPC there ask if you were the famous "Insert your name here" that everyone has been talking about. Combining manual combing of logs with an eventual system for NPC's to add to their own knowledge database would mean that the stregnth of the NPC dialog system would only grow stronger and stronger.
In any case it would seem that this idea is far more viable in my opinion than the current system which is so terrible it might as well be removed imho. UtM has always had a stregnth for very good ideas and it seems strange that I so rarely see them discussed. Anyways UtM - I'm listening so don't give up!
PS
Also BTW since the winch area is so restricted I've made a few redistributable packages of just the winch area for windows and linux users. It contains a zip file (.bin for linuxers) that you extract and run. it contains just enough of the CS libs and the walktest app and the winch file. This way people can explore it in all its glory without interfering with others. I don't know if its legal for me to place it for download (well actually I'm sure it is but I'm more interested in whether anyone will be so mad they would care if I do). So I'll ask around and if its ok I'll post them up in fan art.
-
What UTM described with the keywords pulled out and what you described with how the npc's log all conversations is very close to how it actually already works. The issue is the library of known phrases/words, and that the npc doesn't give you clues about what you are missing when quest prerequisites are not met--saying "I don't understand you" as a response is really not a very good design or implementation of anything. I'm hoping that improves Soon(tm). :-)
What this thread has taught me is that adding maps that are only attainable through certain types of gameplay is very motivational. :-)
- Vengeance
-
* Under the moon abandons ever going to the Winch.
NPCs know a bit about keywords, I am assuming. If they could detect certain words out of a phase that they do understand -much like a search engine-, then recycle them back in the from of a leading yes or no question, that would be a giant step towards greater understanding and realism.
Example: to NPC "Hello, Harn, I was on my way to the Magic shop to finish this quest, but got lost. Do you know the way?"
Harn would gather all of the words he understands out of that phrase and plug them into his list of responses, then chose a follow-up question to narrow it down. He knows 'hello' as a standard greeting, so ignores it for now. He knows 'way' 'magic' 'shop' 'quest' 'lost' and 'do you'. Now, he is obviously not going to understand this question as it is, so he grabs up the words and compares them to his list.
'Quest' and 'do you' would fit in with asking him for a quest, but that is only two words, so gets a low hit number.
'Do you' 'Magic' and 'Way' could lead to info he knows about the Glyphs. Three hits. Getting closer.
'Magic + shop' 'do you' 'way' gives him the cue to give directions, but he is not sure yet, so replies: "Hello there! (as response to your hello) Are you asking the way to the Magic shop?
Now, if you were not asking to go to the Magic Shop, you say no. He then goes back to his list of matches, and asks about the next most likely or asks you for more information on what you want. Even if he does not know what you are talking about, it gives the illusion of intelligence.
But we do want to go to the magic Shop, so we say "Why yes I am."
He picks up on 'why' and 'yes'. Given the question he just asked you, he picks out 'yes' as the keyword, and responds "Well, that's easy, you just go past the old yeller groffel, ya know the one Trayosk used to own. Though come to think of it, he does not have the little beast anymore..."
And yes, I understand how time consuming that would be to create. Perhaps that is what is already intended.
That sounds all fine in theory, but I could see how it'd easily be a LOT more frustrating than even the system we have now...
[Directions to the magic shop haven't been implemented yet]
"Hello, Harn, I was on my way to the Magic shop to finish this quest, but got lost. Do you know the way?"
"Greetings, friend! I'm afraid, being a blacksmith, I'm not very well-versed in the magical Way. Jayose might know more about it, though. In fact, I have a smithing book I need to return. Would you help me?"
"No thanks. I'm a little lost, and I just need directions to the magic shop."
"You need directions? Where are you headed?"
"I want to go to the goddamn Magic Shop! Y'know, to see Levrus!"
"Levrus? Yeah, he's the owner of the Magic Shop. He's pretty skilled in the different Ways of magic, and he's a devout alchemist. His potions and glyphs are the best around."
"Are you gonna tell me how to get to the magic shop or not!?"
"I can't tell you too much about magic. Ain't my thing. Try talking to Levrus, the magic shop owner"
"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF- *banned for inappropriate language*
-
What UTM described with the keywords pulled out and what you described with how the npc's log all conversations is very close to how it actually already works. The issue is the library of known phrases/words, and that the npc doesn't give you clues about what you are missing when quest prerequisites are not met--saying "I don't understand you" as a response is really not a very good design or implementation of anything.
UtM idea isn't that new, he or someone else proposed i already in the wishlist over half of a year ago, or so ;)
But it is the exact answer to the problem "I don't understand you" you describe.
Maybe i didn't get whole sense of your post. I just heard that the UtM idea may lead to NPCs asking you things you shouldnt be asked for. But it may be stopped by messages which trigger posible answers concerning some quests ( EDIT: made in wise way, maybe any triggers triggered on wont trigger off, as long as you are near the NPC, but only when you walk away?). But this should count only for quests dialogs, not normal talking to NPC, like getting info about things.
another EDIT What this thread has taught me is that adding maps that are only attainable through certain types of gameplay is very motivational. :-)
As long as you can communicate with NPCs, because when you can't it takes the motivation away.
-
Gak, no. No multiple choice. That is just putting more words into the mouths of our characters. I have made my suggestions already (on page three, which went unnoticed). Parsing the text and searching for responses or leading questions is a better way to go, and far more organic and natural.
I didn't mean multiple choice as in:
"Hey, Harnquist, my man, where's the Magic Shop"
>"Yo, can you teach me about sword making"<
"Any quests available?"
Etc.
I meant:
Magic Shop
>Sword Making<
Quests
Etc.
In other words: You choose the conversation theme, and pretend/RP what your character said. It's the only method that doesn't put words in your character's mouth.
In fact, you could even RP that you threatened Harnquist, or seduced him, or whatever, because it's left to your imagination what you said.
Kinda like in Oblivion.
-
I'm not saying that anyone is whining here - I do agree that quest complaints are valid. It's just that having a thread specifically for improvement suggestions of the quest system would actually be a big help :]
Actually... I did. Quest/Progress Journal (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27239.0)
To tell you the truth, I think Seytra nailed every problem there was to say about the quest system in that post (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27600.msg314290#msg314290). Even if it's a long read, it's definitely worth it for the people who missed the gist of all the suggestions proposed.
Now, to add a suggestion to this idea once more, let me share my background a little. I've played The Elder Scrolls - Morrowind (single player RPG for those who don't know about it) for a very long time and fiddled a lot with its editor, thus delving into the development tools they used. Other than the game engine, everything there was laid out and one could modify a whole lot of things as the plug-in system basically allowed even the creation of a new computer game based on it (albeit, they would still be bound to the Bethesda EULA). Now, you have to realize that to have a single player so compelling to keep one's interest alive for so long had to be GOOD.
Coming back to our problem... here's how things worked in there.
The was a big database containing all this stuff - standard issue. The difference in the quest system is very little because you also had key-words and predefined phrases and questions as well, the only difference was that they were somewhat laid out and you could simply click on the key-words (instead of guessing them) and follows the steps to get a quest or find out more about the world. Basically it was like PS for dummies :P
What differs in PlaneShift is the fact that we have to "communicate" somehow with the NPC's in a more natural way, but still following a predefined patterns.
So we have two options:
1. As Under The Moon suggested, we scrap this quest system and pray for a new one which can do a more ellaborate parsing and speech recongnition.
2. Improve the current system with specific emphasis to solving the questing bug which affects the solvability of other quests and...
- add some form of journalizing so that:
- the player can see something (besides in his quest notes) what is going on, and pehaps get some hints on what to do next
- the system always knows when he has finished a quest or in what stage he is in so that it's easier to create alternate paths (..directly from the quest scripts instead of involving the tedious arrangement in the quests table and having to pay attention to everything in it before adding a new quest for fear of interference with another one)
- the setting team to modify the old quest scripts and the new ones so that emphasis lies on what is to be done and less on guessing phrases but rather on accomplishing the requests
All of this is not very hard actually in terms of implementation, but it's hard work to rewrite everything after that. The settings team will probably have a field day. Only scrap probably and replace with "one heck of a..."
-
I took a look at this post and then at the posts put up by noobs who can't get out of the death realm. Amazing similarities.
I think it's great that the devs are pushing things in new directions that force all the complacent "senior" players back in to the role of the noob. Maybe you should ask for help fom another player like most everybody recommends to a new player.
I agree the NPC responses to quests are frustrating but I deal with a lot of people in real life that I can't get a straight answer from. Take a deep breath, calm down, relax.
-
I took a look at this post and then at the posts put up by noobs who can't get out of the death realm. Amazing similarities.
I think it's great that the devs are pushing things in new directions that force all the complacent "senior" players back in to the role of the noob. Maybe you should ask for help fom another player like most everybody recommends to a new player.
I agree the NPC responses to quests are frustrating but I deal with a lot of people in real life that I can't get a straight answer from. Take a deep breath, calm down, relax.
...
We're discussing how to make the system better, it's different. If we all just 'relaxed', the game would never get better (at least, not until it comes out of alpha). I'm not sure which post you're referring to, but your 'input', if I may be so blunt, sucks ass :P
-
Well i have to say, the settings team has done an outstanding balls up regarding the winch. Cryptic comments like 'Aid the government' mean nothing!.. Firstly the gate tells you to go see Raithen.. Raithen as usual has no idea what you are talking about.. so, i thought OK its government stuff, maybe its secret, so, i will build confidence by doing all the official quests. done, and still no joy...
I have now completed 57 quests [Beniua and Hiacheius wont give me thiers or there would be more.] But still not one NPC can tell me anything about the winch. My next thought was to check the library but on the Government shelves there was 1 Tef skin, 1 tin ore, a lake mushroom, a night mushroom and a tef claw.. but NOTHING about the government..
IF anyone at all has worked out how to gain access AFTER it was changed, PLEASE throw us a bone?
-
Take a deep breath, calm down, relax.
After i cut your head off noob ;P
if you have to zoom, it you didn't get the joke and yo can start laughting now ;> I also hope you don't mind this little offtopic
-
If you ask me, the quest system like it is now, is not THAT bad. It only needs abit of adjustment. Asking npcs "about [keyword]" does the job perfectly, if you know what the right keywords are. There are a few quests, in which some npcs tell you, what to say to the npc, you have to see next. That is much appreciated, as it saves you from going nuts, searching for the right keywrods in a text, that takes almost a minute to appear now (in the new version) and repeat the whole precedure, after you asked for the false word. In my opinion, the chat with npcs should work like this:
Player: Greetings.
Npc: Greetings citizen. I am XYZ
Player: How are you?
Npc: I am very well, thank you, but there is something that means a bit of [trouble] to my [sister] and that worries me.
Player: Tell me about your sister. --- (you have chosen one of the 2 keywords in the previous sentence, which unlocks the following)
Npc: My sister is XYZ and she runs the [bakery] in town.
player: Tell me about bakery.
npc: Oooh, the bakery here is the best in whole Yliakum, and i do not only say that, because my [sister] runs it. --- (dead end, go back to other keywords)
Player: tell me about trouble.
Npc: Blah, blah, blah... go to the [bakery] in east-hydlaa and speak to my [sister]. just ask her, if she needs help, she might be willing to pay you for your help.
Player: Alright, bye.
Npc: Goodbye, citizen.
You go to his sister now and just say: "can i help you?", and she tells you, whats up and you get a quest.
Or, if you havent spoken to npc #1 first and you find the bakery and the sister by coincidence:
Player: Greetings.
Npc #2: Greetings. sorry, but i dont really have time for you, as you can see, im very busy with my [bakery].
Player: Tell me about bakery.
Npc #2: I run this bakery for a month now, and [work] is building a pile.
Player: tell me about work.
Npc #2: Oh, i can tell you, blah, blah, blah, i cant do it all by myself, and i really need help.
Player: Can I help you?
npc #2: Oooh please, if you could blah, blah, blah, i would be really thankful. i cannot pay you much, but what i can spare, you shall get. So, will you still help me?
Player: Yes
YOU GOT A QUEST
---------------------------
Player: Greetings.
Npc: Hello there.
Player: How are you?
Npc: Not very well, but i dont know you enough, to tell you, what my [problem] is.
pPayer: Tell me about problem
Npc: no sorry, yet, i do not trust you enough. maybe later. --- (dead end, no quest available yet. byebye)
The game can recognize how wellknown a character is, just by "taking a look" into your questbook.
No quests done:
Player: Hello
Npc: Hello
Player: How are you?
Npc: Fine, fine... stranger (dead end)
Same npc, lots of qusts done:
Player: Hello
Npc: Oh greetings, sir/lady blah.
Player: How are you?
Npc: Well, to be honest, i have a [problem]. and i am sorry to bother you with this, but i have heard very much about you...
Player: Tell me about problem.
Npc: blah blah, blah... will you help me?
pPyer: Yes
YOU GOT A QUEST
Thats what I would like to be the npc chat, the keywords the npcs give you, should be in [] brackets, and yes, there should also be keywords, that lead into a dead end, to make the chat more realistic. However, which keywords are in brackets, and if they are in brackets at all, should depend on your character's intelligence and charisma. Of course, an unskilled character could find the right keywords, simply by trying, or being smart enough to find the right keywords on his own. Personally, i dont see a problem with that, but, referring to another thread here on the forums, PS is a roleplaying-game in which player skills (own intelligence in this case) shouldn't mean anything, only character skills, so why not making the npc-chat and the keywords related to your characters' stats? Inteligence lets the keywords appear in brackets, charismatic characters will not get refused by the npcs and get more keywords and info, maybe a higher reward also. [some more trias than just a friggin octa]
About the timelock, yeah its annoying, but if it is a neccessary thing to have, and if you arrived just after some other player got a quest by a certain npc, i would suggest the chat to be like this:
Player: Hello.
Npc: Greetings.
Player: How are you?
Npc: Not too bad, just a little [problem] i have to deal with.
Player: Tell me about problem.
Npc: I might have something to do for you. come back at 3pm.
Player: Alright, bye.
Npc: Bye.
If there are a bunch of people, who are trying to get this quest, the npc should give out different times for the players to come back. but since the ingame hours arent that short, i would suggest to cap the players to a certain time. (sorry, i dont know how to say, i will give an example:)
Player a gets the message: come back at 3pm
Player b gets the message: come back at 3pm
Player c gets the message: come back at 3pm
Player d gets the message: come back at 3pm
Player e gets the message: come back at 3pm
Player f gets the message: come back at 4pm
Player g gets the message: come back at 4pm
Player h gets the message: come back at 4pm
Player i gets the message: come back at 4pm
Player j gets the message: come back at 4pm
All these players, who are there at the time, they were told to be there, should get this quest, not only one. This will allow to reduce the max amount of players, who are doing the quest at same time to a minimum, and it will tell the players, when to be there, instead of leading them to camping the NPC and spamming.
-
Just to add some things:
Rich characters that would have access to the Winch won't commonly do menial errands for others(Most quests are such)
There's no "underground" way to reach the Winch
If it really depends on maxed Stats as Proteous, it contradicts fully the nature of PS as a roleplay focused game. This quest then is better for a game like *cough* Runescape.
I dispute the very notion that PS is an RP focused game. Clearly the nauture of the leveling system, quests, and PvP denotes that AT MOST it is a 1st/3rd person action-adventure game with a very strong role playing emphasis.
If you just want to solely roleplay, AIM, YIM, or MSN is all you need. For a true role player a chat program would be EVERY BIT as good as the sort of game the devs have actually created.
-
Heh. Valorious has a point. I mean... what's with the arena, then? Also, when the lower-levels open, do players that do not train their characters really have a chance in the Stone Labyrinths?
-
I took a look at this post and then at the posts put up by noobs who can't get out of the death realm. Amazing similarities.
This quest and escaping the DR are completely different situations. With the DR, someone can lead you out, or you can just watch where other people go. If you follow the right path, you will escape the DR *every time*. With this Winch quest, you ask for a quest over and over and over for hours, and still some don't get the quest. I have spent almost 3 hours there, asking for a quest, with 3 different characters, and none have gotten the quest. I talked to another person that seems to be there every time I'm there, and as of this morning, he has spent 6 to 7 HOURS trying to get the quest. This is nothing like trying to escape the DR.
-Roahn
-
Heh. Valorious has a point. I mean... what's with the arena, then? Also, when the lower-levels open, do players that do not train their characters really have a chance in the Stone Labyrinths?
For a "true RPer" none of those things are neccesary at all.....as they can go anywhere they wish totally beyond the constraints of the game engine or even reality.
It is that very point that proves beyond any doubt that PS is OBVIOUSLY intended to be very much more than "just" a RPing game. If it wasnt at least partly about leveling, there would be no levels. If it wasn't partially about dueling, there would be no PvP, etc, etc, etc.
And none of these things should even matter to a "True RPer" anyway, as they can still stand in a circle at the tavern and pretend they are astronauts landing on the moon in their chat boxes if they like. These "True RPers" need to understand, this game is NOT all about them. It's as obvious as the crystal above Valorius Rageways head!
-
Roahn;
No one will get the second quest raithen offers by spamming the same thing over and over. You must take an alternative path. If you are still sitting there spamming raithen, stop and re-evaluate your approach.
Edit. The Entry to the winch is more difficult than you now assume. Doing the same thing over and over in a loop will not change anything.
-
Cheers.
-
"The Entry to the winch is more difficult than you now assume. Doing the same thing over and over in a loop will not change anything."
Does that mean we don't need to get a response from Raithen any more?
Does that mean, technically... that if nobody else was to visit Raithen for a week... and I asked him each day for a quest... he would never give it? (I personally experienced the opposite of this... however, I got an old quest repeated rather than anything new!)
1. I'd really like to explore the new area.
2. I follow the advice at the Winch Door
3. Then Raithen acts like he doesn't know what the Winch Door is, refuses to give out quests, etc.
This is why people are getting frustrated... because the sign at the Winch Door... and Raithens behavior.. contradict one another!
-
Drah i have tried to ask these questions, but they are being very nicely ignored.. I think you will find that they are ignorant and dont wish to tell us anything.
-
:oops: I think the real reason for no more access is, they have yet to explain what and how, it came to be, sorry but can not explain, as it would be a spoiler.
-
OK people i would like to retract something i said in a previous post and appologise to the settings team for my own error.
Raithen DOES in fact give you information regarding access to the winch. you just need to use the correct wording to get him to talk.
As this is the case i appologise for ranting earlier..
Proteous will continue to work his way in to the winch.
-
must be a leveler and quester to hold a role cruitial for rp.
devs really hit the nail on the head on this one.
-
must be a leveler and quester to hold a role cruitial for rp.
devs really hit the nail on the head on this one.
Testers first, players second, roleplayers third :innocent:
-
Testers first, players second, roleplayers third :innocent:
That's not quite right. Think of it as the Divine Trinity in the Roman Catholic religion. Three parts, one God: Three different aspects to playing, one player.
-
Is anyone going to post some screenshots of the Winch for us non-questers? :'(
-
Please read the Screenshots! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26613.msg312673#msg312673) thread from this post on, there is plenty there.
-
Looks great shame my characters will never see it. ::)
-
Just to try to eliminate my problems here...
I've done the Dark Circle Ring quest... but have since deleted it from my list of completed quests.
Will it still be considered as a completed pre-requisite to the 2nd quest... or will it NOT?
If it will not... then I'm kinda stuck as I'm not even getting that first quest again any more.
(and was wondering whether the timed lock-out could interfere with the re-assigning of the first quest?)
-
I've done very few quests since 0.3.014 and have took many again and discarded so the chances of me seeing the place are very slim unless I quest 'til 0.5.
-
Just to try to eliminate my problems here...
I've done the Dark Circle Ring quest... but have since deleted it from my list of completed quests.
Will it still be considered as a completed pre-requisite to the 2nd quest... or will it NOT?
If it will not... then I'm kinda stuck as I'm not even getting that first quest again any more.
(and was wondering whether the timed lock-out could interfere with the re-assigning of the first quest?)
[I had also deleted the first quest. I had to compete with other CP's in order to obtain that quest again so it looks like it was on some timeout, but I cannot say if that was the winch quest one or whether someone else had just obtained the Dark Circle Ring quest, I did receive it eventually though.
I then obtained and lost the winch quest twice for various reasons, (timeout and some wierd game bug), before completing it on the third attempt.]
Alecin
-
Perhaps I can offer some insight. I've done, several quests for the Shadow, and Sunshine Squadrons. Only then was I am to say "I need a quest" and in return got permission to enter the winch, as for the lock that has supposedly been placed. I spent a good portion of yesterday exploring the winch in search of this lock, with the NPC server down I have nothing better to do except waste time proving or disproving theories and conjections. No lock was found. but I explored the fortress, and every builds door primarily. Im currently in search of a higher metallurgy trainer. I have not, checked the two towers in the Winch, or the fences. But why put them there? But as for access. You need a certain amount of Sunshine and Shadow Squadron quests completed. My quests that were completed were erased in the wipe, atleast the logs, and have no outside source to confirm how many quests I did for either. But I assure you it's atleast 8, 4 each.
-
I’m not surprised a restricted area in PS is causing uproar. So far, in the five plus years I believe this is a first. It is really not that big a deal. It has some beautiful parts; I particularly like the architecture and stained glass windows of the winch house. But it is still just a relatively small map.
In a way there are some similarities between players needing to gain access to this area and the players who power level. If you are a player who wants to max out every skill and own the most powerful weapons, I can see how frustrating this can be for you. You see this as some silly puzzle designed to impede your progress to uber player. Well here is a spoiler for you - you need to find a new game.
What we are trying to create are new possibilities of RPing. In this case there is a gate with a guard that only allows those recognized by the inner circle of merchants to enter. It does not matter if you are very rich. It also does not matter how well you are known about the plaza. If you are playing merchant or powerful townsfolk it would be in your best interest if you found out a little bit about the NPCs that control the winch. Complete some quests and network. If you have a merchant related guild, I think in the long run it would be important to you for one or more guild members to gain access to this area.
If you are playing another type of player we hope to at some point provide you with something of your own. If you are an adventurer, then I would think you would be more interested in fame and fortune then wondering about someone else’s place of business. For those who are playing roles with interest that run against or parrell to the merchants in the winch area we will weave you into the settings of this area as best we can as soon as we can.
And as Xillix said, think of this as a new possibility not as a new limitation.
-
thanks tomt for cutting through the noise. Players, know that we are all concerned for your well-being; your thoughts have value to us. vitriol is needless, we are all friends here. I too once argued passionately for certain aspects of developement. No one on the dev team is insensitive to the plight of the player. we consider you first in every motion we make. this thread has caused me to pay far more attention then i should have to player concerns. we do mean the best by you. Those who argue that you are testers first are categorically correct. Any argument to the contrary is absurd. Has planeshift been around long enough that players no longer feel it is pre-alpha? Yes. Does this alter the status of this game as pre-alpha? Not in the least.
many of the people most offended by the manner in which one enters the winch are also some of my favorite people in the community. Does this mean i relent? No. this has been one of the better tests put forth to date. have there been problems with it? Yes. I assure you that watching what occured when this region was put forth was of high value to every developer. Do we like what we see on the forums? Not very often.
We have been called lazy etc etc. Hard to cope with? At times yes. enough to make any of us want to quit? Not by a longshot. I have incredibly high hopes for this community and my hopes for its long-term solvency. I do not want to have to wear "hater blockers" to pay attention to the forums. I think the devs becomming disenfrachised with player feedback would be a grevious error on our part.
many players have not made it easy to continue to care what goes on here. I would like to appeal to those of you with rational faculties one last time. Please do not make visiting this forum a painful thing that detracts from our efforts. Help us, but cut the evil out of the argument. if you call a person working for nothing Lazy you undermine all of the sincere hard work that goes into making the player interactivity worthwhile for us.
Often devs see less than ideal participation in the process of improving this game for the players. You can all do better than this.
I have had serious concerns since the entrance criteria for the winch was established, whatever rules we set have a function. It is not random or arbitrary to anyone involved in development. we care pecisely enough to be invested in how every player is doing. try not to take stances which discourage effort on our part. We are not customer service reps here to absorb negative comments, we are talented people dedicated to making this project a success.
govern yourselves accordingly.
May laanx frighten the shadow from your paths.
Xillix
-
The questing system has some mechanical flaws. -- Tomt, why do you make assumptions about people who are curious about (and eager to access) the Winch and compare them to "powerlevellers" right before saying they should "find another game"??
I appreciate you wanting to "cut through the noise" as Xillix puts it... but doesn't that seem a little harsh?
Also, I asked a question to try to get to the crux of these mechanical flaws and to eliminate a potential problem for questers... can any of the devs answer that question?
-
Hi all,
If you don't mind I'd to throw out a speech here. K, thanx.
I understand that quite a few of you are a bit frustrated with the whole questing thing and with the troubles getting into the new area and whatnot and so on and so forth. And on the other side of the fence, the devs get frustrated at the players when it seems that all they ever see when they come round these parts are negative nonconstructive remarks.
So we're all frustrated, and we say things out of frustration, that really could be worded better.
Now, this thread for the most part has been quite constructive, very much more so than many of the previous threads around here lately, and I applaud you all for being able to keep it that way.
So cookies and hugs for everyone. Lets try our best to keep it that way ok?
Now then, I'd like to remind people of a few things. There is a difference between the devs that write our wonderful quests, and the devs that write the code for the quest system. So while the we have a well thought out, marvelous quest, because the current quest system is a bit limited, it isn't as good as it certainly can be, and therefore the devs that write all these fun, great quests have to work with what they are given, so the quest that comes os limited to the system it is built upon. They know that things could be better, but have to wait on the devs that actually do the coding of the quest system for that to improve, before the quest dialog can improve. But the dev team is working on these things, and it is improving, it just takes time.
And many good posts have been made for suggestions on how to make the system better, both here in this thread and in threads in the wishlist area, and they have been noted by devs, even if it doesn't seem they have.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom, just because so many people want to get into the new area, doesn't mean they are powerlevers per se. As a tester, I try to do my part to test every aspect of the game, and that certainly does include brand spanking new areas once they are released. So it is quite possible that many people are wanting to go into the new area because they want to test things out.
Another possibility is that the sheer attractiveness of a new area drives so many people there. Same reason why so many flocked to the BD region when it was first rolled out. Sure, many of the characters may not have been in character by trying to get into the Winch, or when they traveled to the BD, but they do it anyway, as, to the player, these things our new, and people are simply curious about them and want to explore things out. I don't really see anything wrong with that, do you? So of course there is going to be a build up of people wanting to get in and explore. It's new! It's exciting! it's filled with mystery, and these facts attract people. This is simply a fact of human nature.
Not to say that some of the actions taken by players we're out of line here. IC, only characters that have a reason to be there should be going there. The way to prove this is of course through actions IG that will unlock this area to those characters.
It's why PS is so unique. It's an open alpha, where anyone can come in and test things and play with things and report bugs and what not, but at the same time, we're encouraging people to treat many aspects as a completed project and to be IC and roleplay while IG as much as they can.
Naturally, things are going to collide and we simply all, devs and players alike have to work together for a solution.
The way I see and understand things, the winch connects levels right? So if had a character that liked to explore, I'd want to be able to access the ways to reach other levels right? But my character isn't a merchant. But I still would like access to the area. What should I do? hmm, well if I were any type of businessman, and I knew that people wanted to get into an area, I'm certainly not going to bar them from it if there is a profit to be made and the right security was put in place to prevent people from doing things they shouldn't be doing. So what so I do? I'm going to charge them an entrance fee to get into my area.
So people don't want to do the quests but still want access to the area? No problem, charge them a fee to be able to go there. They can still explore the area and when they have met their fill of the place, they will leave, and the ones that are the merchant type characters who really need to access the area over and over and over again, will do the quests and what not to gain permanent access to the area to be able to conduct their merchant business.
And of course the more darker characters can sneak in or what not, but like many things, thats still in planning.
Maybe you (devs) have already thought of alternate ways of letting players in and what not, I don't know. I'm simply throwing out an idea. Do what you like with it.
The bottom line that everyone needs to remember here, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun. So lets try our best to make it fun for everyone, dev and player alike.
And lets try to treat each other with a little common courtesy and a little respect no doubt.
Edit, saw a typo I had missed last night. :)
-
I would like to thank Tomt for his post, as it sums up exactly why I do not do the quests (besides the flawed NLP). It is not that I find them hard, nor boring. It is the same reason I did not go to the Bronze Door area for a month after it was created, and will not go to the Winch as well. None of my characters have any intrest in going there. It is as simple as that. None of them are interested in the rewards of the quests, or stepping out of their normal actions to help someone in a way they generally wouldn't. How many people do you know that would actualy run around asking random folks on the street if they need some help?
The great majoriety of players attemt to max out in everything they can, despite the fact that they do not play to those skills. This is not quite powerleveling, but more of a "I want to try everything" aspect. So yes, in a way, doing all the quests depsite your character type is a form of powerleveling, just as leaning skills your character should have no intrest in is also a form of powerleveling.
Restricting access to many of the game's features, including certiain skills, items, and areas, is not only good, but nessisary to the wellfare of the entire world. Note that I said world, not game nor players. In a MMO-anything, the individual is not as important as the greater whole. If there are no limits in place, then players will do anything and everything they want. That is complete chaos.
Now, for those people that do wish to test out some features, as I kinow we all do, but find that it would be out of character fo them, I suggest a free pass of some sort. The free pass gives you access to one -and only one- feature, higher level skilll, or restricted area for a certain time limit, then expires. You no longer have access to that feature through the free pass system. Anything you created or did in the time of the free pass expires as well. However, you are given a new free pass to try something else new, and so on. This allows people to try new things without a great deal of time invested, yet restrics it in a way that is fair to those who do put a lot of work into the proccess. Ballance is achieved. Another plus is that you can try something, then decide if you like it, rather than spending endless hours doing something, only to find out the end product is just not you cup of tea.
-
Hear Hear heed the word from the Bird...He ain't Puffin nuffin funny! I too am eager to explore the new area and somewhat disappointed that I can't right away but I'm still looking for my way over the wall, if only I could practice my climbing skill or find a rope.
\
O |
O |
/
Not sure how well the free pass system might work, sounds like unneeded coding or more work for GM's or both, interesting idea though.
-
You know, I was just thinking: most of the suggestions here are about a finalized system, a finished product.
In the meantime, I think it would be beneficial (and I don't think this would count as spoilers*) for someone who understands all the code behind quests to write a guide on the syntax used when questing, at least as a sort of middle point, so that a complete rewrite of the quest system isn't necessary for at least a little while longer. Basically, the main problem I have with quests is that I don't know the syntax of how I should get something across to the npc; if basic syntaxes could be given for getting basic ideas across (fictional example: "If you need an item from an npc, use the syntax of: 'hand over *item*', in the example of I need a sword, so I use 'hand over sword'"). This would lower the learning curve of communicating with npcs and definitely make the npc communication part of quests much easier (although it's not great for a final solution).
*I don't think this counts as spoilers as the whole "guessing game" system isn't very realistic at all: when I communicate with someone, I don't have to say something 100 different ways before I get it across to them that I want some tea, I might need to say it once or twice, but not over 7 times if it's a native English speaker and I'm not trying to confuse them with big words. This is in direct opposition with providing quest solutions, which breaks the reality and makes the game less fun (and is therefore why they are considered spoilers).
-
I think i'll take that bit of advice. I wouldn't call myself an 'uber-leveler', but clearly, like other people who can't enter the winch I really should look for a new game.
BYE
-
I said it was wrong to restrict an area based on talking to dumb AI? NPCs, but I guess the devs have the word on this and the old "suck it up you're a tester" phrase will come again directed for me. So let's wait for more people to quit.
In my opinion, it is better to develop a feature decently(quests) before implementing new features that depend on it.
In other words: Improving the NPC system should be priorized over adding new areas or features relying on it.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27600.msg314532#msg314532 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27600.msg314532#msg314532)
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27600.msg314598#msg314598 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27600.msg314598#msg314598)
-
I am astounded. Is no one reading posts by Xillix? A lot of you here sure are little thorns, aren't you :)
-
I am astounded. Is no one reading posts by Xillix? A lot of you here sure are little thorns, aren't you :)
I readed them, and my main character would never go there IC for obvious reasons(Must "help the government to gain access" and isn't a merchant). But what's the point of implementing new features to only give some people headaches in "phrases guessing" games? And to encourage mass-questing as well alongside the usual non-RP features involved?
I wouldn't build a car with sketches of prototypical engines and parts.
Neither I would make a raft with woods that weren't fully lumbered yet.
Or make a machine that depends on a broken gear.
-
Pish posh, you act as though everything aside from quests is in perfect condition ;) Every system needs work, and many systems may need complete rewrites. We don't work on one feature to get it up to 100% of where it needs to be and then move onto the next. We do things in bits and pieces. It's a pain for players sometimes, but that's development for you. In the future, combat may be nothing like it is now. Crafting may be nothing like it is now. And so the NPC interaction.
So don't be a downer. You've said what you wanted to say - what more are you trying to do? Give it a rest, dude.
-
Crafting may be nothing like it is now.
I particularly like the crafting system, actually, and if it was changed I wouldn't want it to lose many of it's main features, such as the guesswork and having something in mind, and the use of furnaces as container items. All are quite well liked by me :P Of course, I can be assured that any major rewrite it has will only make it better then it already is, I'm sure. If there's a change I don't like, be sure that I will vocalize afterwards and not beforehand.
But, more on topic:
I am astounded. Is no one reading posts by Xillix? A lot of you here sure are little thorns, aren't you
Yes, which is why I haven't posted a lot of the things that I think about the current npc system's limitations and how frustrating it is (if you want me to vent on it, then I will), partly because I've tried to write a native English parser and failed miserably (and it was supposed to follow the simple logic of the stereotypical counselor--repeating short phrases of the statements as questions to get the person to elaborate, and asking "what do you mean by", "what makes you so *feeling* about *thing*" or "and how does that make you feel?". It never reached a state where it could do more then parse the letters and then tokenize the words :P Of course, it was in scheme (much like lisp), but that's beside the point). I'm sure that the current system will improve with time, but in the meantime it can be kind of frustrating :P (which is why I suggested a sort of middle solution, instead of an end point)
-
To step away from the stressing part (wow, to say bye, because of dump NPCs.. heh)...
I think the gate should be kept open. And percival should stay there and watch who is entering it. I man, do they open it everytime someone want to enter? there teens of houses, I doubt these people stay only in that hydlaa district. There are also merchants merchants who come and go. The winch is afterall metchants property, no?
The gate should be just open at day and Percival wouldn't let anyone who cant go in. Later if guards could go after, you you would have few choices, like sneaking attempt or wih force (what can't end good ;))
Maybe you could enter the winch after paying few octas? Everytime if you don't have permission. I would expect goverment to be happy of such solution, while giving them profit and stopping random, problem causing people entering the district.
Just some ideas and i wonder if this is considered and isn't in game, because of technical issues.
-
Maybe there is an npc nobody has discovered yet who accepts bribes to use his key.... maybe even Harnquist if you dropped the proper name.... hmmmm
-
IIn other words: Improving the NPC system should be priorized over adding new areas or features relying on it.
As much as we try, it’s just not that simple in a project this size to control the priorities as you suggest. Different teams are working on different parts of the game at different paces. When there were only a few quests, the NPC dialog was not that big a deal. The settings team has embarrassed the engine team by creating a tremendous body of work in such a short time, exposing some problems with NPC dialogs. We hope to address that weakness soon.
Tom, just because so many people want to get into the new area, doesn't mean they are powerlevers per se. As a tester, I try to do my part to test every aspect of the game, and that certainly does include brand spanking new areas once they are released. So it is quite possible that many people are wanting to go into the new area because they want to test things out.
I know it is not what some of the other devs think but I never liked the idea of players as testers. Players are not being paid to test the game, just like all the GMs, artists, musicians, wordsmiths, and coders involved on the development side are not being paid.
PS is a game and as a game it should be played for fun; nothing more, nothing less.
I think the “players as testers” idea comes from two sources. First, the game is not complete; the combat/spell logic needs improvement, NPC behavior is far from done, and for a fact we do not have any ranged weapons alone proves it is in development. So since it is not complete, players can not do everything that is normally available in other MMOLRPG. I think this is a bit of philosophy left over from Molecular Blue version where players could only pick up crystals. Players were considered testers since there was not much else to do. The current version is much more of a game and as such can be played a lot more then just tested. The second point is that we do not have very many people who can test, so we are relying on the player community to test for us if they are so inclined. Some people like finding problems and we can certainly need all the help we can get.
Not all the Krann Omins in the world will like the game or where it is going but that has to be expected. Talad has a vision of how the game should be and we are all following that vision. In the end we hope to create a game that we would all love to play. It will not have everything or be everything that everybody wants. Thankfully we do not have a marketing group trying to determine what features will attract the most amount of players willing to pay $19.99 a month. This game is free and always will be, so there is no player contract implied. You are only expected not to ruin the experience for other players. So please just join in and have fun.
-
I know it is not what some of the other devs think but I never liked the idea of players as testers. Players are not being paid to test the game, just like all the GMs, artists, musicians, wordsmiths, and coders involved on the development side are not being paid.
PS is a game and as a game it should be played for fun; nothing more, nothing less.
Some people enforce too much that "Testers First" thing on the forums and forget about that.
-
1. In the Begining Planeshift had no Quests...
2. ...And then there were Quests! And the Quests came in two types:
- Quests that were stand-alone
- Quests that required another Quest to be completed first before you could trigger them
3. ...And the Quests had Rewards! And the Rewards came in two types:
- Rewards that were one-off stand-alone and specific to that particular quest
- Rewards that were items which another Quest required you to have before you could complete that particular quest
All was happiness and sweetness and light in PlaneShift...
Then a new Area known as The Winch was introduced... .. .
Now the Quests have a third type:
- Quests that are stand-alone
- Quests that require another Quest to be completed first before you can trigger them
- Quests that require multiple other Quests to be completed first before you can trigger them
In the case of gaining the Quest which will give you the 'key' to access The Winch Area door behind Percival -the more of these multiple quests you have completed -the greater the chance that you will trigger the 2nd Quest from the NPC who grants this 'key'... but you also have to complete his 1st Quest!
NB Check your character's Quest Notebook to make sure that this 1st Quest is actually listed as Completed: if it isn't, you will have to do this 1st Quest again, or you'll never trigger the 2nd Quest that everyone seems to want!
-
15 month I am here now, nearly every day a lot of hours! I was one of the Leaders nearly one year of the Woiperdinger Guild with more than 160 Members. Now I having my own little guild and a lot of very good friends here in Ps. This really is the only reason I will stay. My friends!!
I f I do'nt would have them I would leave inmediatly! I am really frustrated and angry now. First you take more than a millon of trias away from me. My stats and skill are maxed and I have more than 50.000 pps now, The money I made correctly with no cheating. You took it away and let me 150k. You alone know why!!!
Now I spend more than 60 hours only for 14 winch related quests. And cannot go there, because I did'nt made enough, one of your GMs told me. You make me, the guild master feel like a noob in front of my guild members.
SHAME ON YOU!
:(
Tutnoned Hahey
-
I am not even going to dignify this thread with a smile.
Can everyone get in the winch? Yes, unless they got PC trouble.
Is the winch tough to get in? Yeah, pretty darn tough.
Is there a reason as to why it's so tough to get in? Yeah, it fits the settings nicely. Right clicky on the door.
But I am rich and famous and pretty!! Tough luck, some do not agree.
I don't understand? your problem.
Will there be more areas that will be tough to get in in the future? Thank Talad, there will be a bit is my guess.
Anything else? No no. That's about it.
(Sorry if I sounded overly cocky, for the record... Proglin can not get in yet either. For some reason GM char gets in easely! Don't cry... if you want to get in, which I can imagine cause it looks wonderful. <3 devs. Find a way you bunch of creative players.)
-
@Proglin: Finding a way through guessing words directed at dumb NPCs is truly a vigorously fun and creative exercise that makes people very motivated and happy. Time to reanswer some of your questions
But I am rich and famous and pretty!! Tough luck, some do not agree.
Some characters would get rich, but would never do "questing" around IC for several reasons, one of them being that most are pretty much errands, other that some people would rather slit their own throats than help the government by doing such errands, either because of pride or because they have a thing against it(although in the second case, IC-wise they would probably avoid such types of place at all costs). Surely there must be other ways of reaching it in the future.
Can everyone get in the winch?
Some quests aren't repeatable, if you lost them, goodbye. Plus not everyone has the patience required to face hours and hours of guessing words for that! Thus the answer is: anyone that has nothing better to do than attempting for hours to be understood by the NPCs or anyone with friends to give him "spoiler" OOC about the quests.
Is the winch tough to get in?
Nearing impossible for many
Is there a reason as to why it's so tough to get in?
Yes, someone that does errands for influential people is more important than a rich merchant that is not willing to do them.
I don't understand? your problem.
You just passed your daily cocky limit and gave others reason to do it as well.
Anything else?
Here's a free advice: don't waste time with the winch now. Treat it as a dead area(Because it's "dead" for now anyway from what I heard)
Will there be more areas that will be tough to get in in the future? Thank Talad, there will be a bit is my guess.
This phrase seems to have an ironic sounding into it, still I wonder when "tough" will have another more interesting meaning than its current one.
<3 devs.
They are doing what they can, sometimes things are great(Bug fixes, crafting system finally back, etc), others not(Useless glyphs, etc). Who denies the possibility of failure(Even commercial projects devs make mistakes during the development process) from them might be categorized into several stereotypes. I can only attempt to evaluate their work once it reaches a more significant stage of development (Like 0.5). For now I will hold neutral ground on it.
-
All I can say is that if you go around trying to do quests, have difficulties and ask people in characters questions about said quests they are usually happy to help by giving general tips in character to get you to the next step and more specific tips about wording by tell if you show that you have attempted on your own. In practice, for me anyway, that means going up to some yahoo wearing one of those longhorn helms and being polite. I also would not ask them about multiple quests nor target them for further questioning unless they indicated that I should feel free to do so. I have very few people on my buddy list, only one of which is still active from time to time. So when I need help I just ask another randomly selected person of experience and move on to another if they are unwilling or unable to help.
-
:sorcerer:
as stated earlier other means to enter regions will be provided in time enjoy what we have for now. \\o//
-
:sorcerer:
as stated earlier other means to enter regions will be provided in time enjoy what we have for now. \\o//
The chat tabs are pretty enjoyable for making interesting roleplays. :)
-
It's also nice to have graphics that people spend their free time making for us. Stop being so unappreciative, man. Seriously.
-
Unfortunately I doubt the graphics will ever fit with all characters concepts, as it's simply impossible to do so. Even commercial MMORPGs can't show characters precisely as their players wish them to look like, although most never care about it on those due to the absence of roleplay.
The graphics are nice enough though, a pity the modelling department doesn't have enough people with enough time for making the missing race models.
Anyway the main problem is not graphics, but something called gameplay, that is based on existing game systems(Only things that work properly are mining and crafting. Combat works for hostile NPCs but otherwise is too random for duels, still many of the 1.0 MMO(RP?)Gs have extremely repetitive and boring gameplays) . Fortunately roleplaying can more or less replace it with much more interesting things than what a No-Roleplay finished commercial MMOG could give.
-
Can everyone get in the winch? Yes, unless they got PC trouble.
Is the winch tough to get in? Yeah, pretty darn tough.
Will there be more areas that will be tough to get in in the future? Thank Talad, there will be a bit is my guess.
Excellent news! I would like to suggest a wonderful quest for this next area that will be tough to get into, and one that will follow the example of many other quests. How about this...
You walk up to an NPC and ask for a quest. How about Mr. Bloodaxe in this example.
Player: May I have a quest please?
Bloodaxe: Guess what I have in my pocket.
Player: marble
Bloodaxe: No.
Player: a tooth
Bloodaxe: No.
Player: lint
Bloodaxe: No.
Player: a banana
Bloodaxe: No.
Player: a dagger
Bloodaxe: No.
Player: coins
Bloodaxe: No.
Player: Rotten meat
Bloodaxe: No.
Player: A mushroom
Bloodaxe: No.
I suggest the answer to what Bloodaxe has in his pocket be a "Cashoo." Of course the correct spelling is "Cashew" but by forcing the player to misspell the word would make it even harder! We could even have a timeout on it, so only one person who guesses "Cashoo" per week will succeed, and make sure Bloodaxe doesn't tell anyone about the timeout, so this will cause so much more intrigue. Also answers like "A cashoo" or "cashoos" or "Is it a cashoo?" would not be an exact match, and would therefore also be wrong.
Won't this be FUN? I'm sure people will love the RP aspects, and this game will not only be fun, but difficult. It will reward those willing to stand there for hours and type in word after word after word. Anyone who figures out this quest will be rewarded with the ability to walk around in a new section of town, where someday some interesting NPCs and monsters will be added.
Anyone who doesn't manage to figure out this wonderful quest will just be stupid or impatient or just doesn't care about RP, and RP is what Planeshift is all about!
-Drahlian
-
@Lordraliegh:If you really don't like anything but the rping theres this great game you can download instead. It's called IRC.
-
@Lordraliegh:If you really don't like anything but the rping theres this great game you can download instead. It's called IRC.
But there isn't a community of RPers like this one on IRC :(
Once PS reaches 0.5 I hope it'll be easier to integrate roleplay with the game engine
-
Hmmm.... I don't quest as rule, but the winch quest was actually very easy once you have it. The answers are actually in the quest words given you.
After a little running about looking for the 'quest' NPC's I was soon in the new area.
It is not like some of the other quests where 'obscure' keywords are used... like 'complete' which is used in one which I won't spoil - but was rather too obscure.
-
Glad to see that post from Lolitra :) I have a feeling that most of you complaining are either exaggerating or haven't even tried the quest.
-
or have you tried c cant figin get it even though we have done all bd quests and all quests related to government officials oh and also most other quests in the game.
-
Does Winch access at all depend on any quests where the relevant NPC only ever gives it out once (or where the lock-out is greater than a month)?
The reason I ask is that the NPC who gives the quest ending in a two-horned helm (figured putting it that way wouldn't spoil or reveal their identity!)... doesn't seem to give the quest again... even after two months.
I of course asked GMs... but unfortunately they don't seem to know or have access to that information.
-
This is a bug, it is bugged for some of you. Bugged. There is a bug. There is a problem. This does not work for everyone. There is a break down in the system. There is an issue. There is a complication. This winch access has trouble. Some worries developed as a result of these quests. Technical difficulties. No easy fix presents itself.
Please, dev attentioned is now as always focused on the major issues, this is one of them, be patient. No one is going to add anything that will be at all helpful to us on this bug. We know what the problem is, it will take time to make it right.
Rant on!
-
When the bug is fixed. Will someone let us know that it is fixed. That would be soo much help. That way we don't wasts time trying to do quests that are bugged when we could be having fun in rp. Most of us just would like to be informed, to spend less time frustrated in game and more time having a bit of fun. Thank you all so much.
-
You can read the cvs history (http://planeshift.cvs.sourceforge.net/planeshift/planeshift/docs/history.txt?view=log) and look for when the bug is fixed most devs dont have time to let everyone know when they fix a bug.
-
for this one i will probably let you all know when a fix is in.
-
Any news???
-
Nope
-
How 'bout now ? :P
-
Xillix is very responsible when it comes to his work - he will definitely notify you of changes when they happen. Make some tea (or plant some coffee) and let him continue please :]
-
Watching this thread like a mother hen, will inform you immediately when it is fixed. The whole thing is more complex than you realize.
-
I understand these things take time, I was just playing with the impatient folks :P
-
Xillix,
Could you say... what format the quest dates are stored in and whether the problem is corrupted data or a problem with date differences being calculated by the PS server... or a problem where some quests are interfering with the time-based conditions of other quests?
How complex is it? and what's actually causing some of these quests to become seemingly unrepeatable?
-
The problem is with how the server sets the lockouts and timeouts for each quest and each player. This is a server side bug that the devs will work on fixing before the next release is due out.
-
to know more you may apply to the team . . .
other than that only patience will aid you.
-
k, many thanks for the prompt replies :)
-
WOOHOOO!! My characters two weeks old and was just granted access to the Winch. \\o//
My old char sadly had discarded a quest and couldn't ever get it back, I know there are still many stuck in that position and I hope that issue is resolved for you all.
The effort needed to gain access is worth it. :)
-
Lucky you. I'm trying for weeks now and getting more and more frustrated. I stuck in some Quests and don't know if they are broken, or if i just can't figure out the keyswords the NPC need to react. Yes in know, "Ask inGame", but how do i ask InCharacter if a Quest is broken, or what the heck the frelling keyword for this NPC is? And i finally i have no Clue if i ever will get the Winch Quest, cause i don't know if my Character suffers from the discussed Bug or not...
???
-
What you do is say something like NPC asked me to get some things and now he acts like he doesn't know what I am talking about, it must be a language thing. Does anyone know how I can jog his memory? In other words rather vaguely describe your dilemma not so much as to give away anything to someone who does not know about the quest will have it spoiled but enough so that someone who has done it might be able to help. You will either get an in context cue that will help, an out of context answer by tell or a bunch of I dunno's. Many people are willing to help, but sometimes they are busy and if you have a poor reputation it might be more difficult.
-
There are loads of players stuck in this predicament.. but it will be sorted out soon (tm).
Of course.. an easy solution is to create a new char.. you'll get into the Winch in no time with a new player. ;)
And we are, at present, just testers... so nobody's really in a position to complain I guess (though I admit I feel like moaning about it!).
If you want access to the Winch and you've already got caught out by discarding BD quests... ya just gotta use another char and "suck it up" as they say.
-
Ok, so i declare this not to be a complaint, but a test report. ;)
Don't mind, i'll get over it. :thumbup:
-
Areas like the Winch will be the exception to the rule I hope, or it will look like some kind of ghetto or socialist police state where most are locked in limited areas.
Hope that next new area to be inserted will be open and not restricted.
And it will come soon(tm), so be patient(tm)
-
Lordraleigh, why must you compare everything to some sort of social issue, whether it be Nazis, police states, 1984, etc? :) Expand your horizons. It will make your posts far more interesting.
-
Lordraleigh, why must you compare everything to some sort of social issue, whether it be Nazis, police states, 1984, etc? :) Expand your horizons. It will make your posts far more interesting.
Why must you nitpick on my posts? I do not need nor want a "Self-aid Guide on Posting". It makes me wonder...
I just wouldn't see it as realistic to develop a ton of restricted areas first while letting the open areas to be developed later, it would surely make things difficult for keeping things IC if most available areas would need a quest/etc. to be accessed.
-
I just wouldn't see it as realistic to develop a ton of restricted areas first while letting the open areas to be developed later, it would surely make things difficult for keeping things IC if most available areas would need a quest/etc. to be accessed.
I view it as the Devs just trying something new. They wanted to create a restricted access area so they did. Its just one more thing that is new and people still feel the need to complain about it.
And incase you think I have been swayed in my views, id like to point out that I also dont have access to the area.
-
LR: I don't consider it nitpicking - I am commenting on something that personally annoys me. I believe I have this freedom, whether or not you enjoy its results. If I see that all your posts are cut from the same mold, I have no desire to read them and I may not be the only one. This is something to keep in mind.
Can you please explain what "difficulty" restricted areas present to you IC, aside from technical problems that will be taken care of with future expansions?
-
LR: I don't consider it nitpicking - I am commenting on something that personally annoys me. I believe I have this freedom, whether or not you enjoy its results. If I see that all your posts are cut from the same mold, I have no desire to read them and I may not be the only one. This is something to keep in mind.
You're not the only reader in this forum, and honestly I am not writing here to please everybody as I'm not a marketeer, and thus I won't modify some practices that I may or not decide to use on a more or less common basis just to please two or three people here because they see it as an annoyance while they aren't in other ones PoVs such things, and I believe I equally have the freedom of using them as well, although freedom might be unbalanced (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27887.0). And I would ask to refrain from making generalisations. My posts aren't from the same mold, some may come with that stuff, others won't and may have fully different compositions.
Can you please explain what "difficulty" restricted areas present to you IC, aside from technical problems that will be taken care of with future expansions?
I was saying that on a possibility, not on the current Winch, the possibility that restricted areas could become more common and large than "free" ones in a hypothetical future stage of PS development due to some reason. It would require some make-believe to fix through it IC, as in such supposition, characters mobility OOC would be pretty limited and making believe travels to not yet developed lands in game could become necessary to add into realism. And I think the goal is to not alienate the game engine from the roleplaying so that probably is a null possibility. But one that should be avoided from reaching into at all costs.
-
Can you please explain what "difficulty" restricted areas present to you IC, aside from technical problems that will be taken care of with future expansions?
Access to limited areas is not a problem to me personally, and yes, I've been locked out due to discarded quests. However, should the current trend continue, I can envision a Yliakum future in which more experienced players will be locked away in restricted areas, leaving future new players out. Is this a future we really want to see in Yliakum?
-
But don't forget ... the "future" we're talking about is most probably a future after a big wipe ... when anybody is a "new player" and has all the chances to do and to access what he/she wants to ...
-
But don't forget ... the "future" we're talking about is most probably a future after a big wipe ... when anybody is a "new player" and has all the chances to do and to access what he/she wants to ...
Yes, but theoretically (and hopefully) there will always be an influx of newer players.
-
It's interesting to watch all these different threads that cover similar things from IC and OOC perspectives.
There have been a lot of complaints about not enough people being IC. As I understood it, access to the winch area was based on loyalty to the government. Those who truly RP characters that are not loyal to the government would not do the quest for access to the winch. I don't think it is out of line at all to have a limited access area that is based on an RP reason. In fact it makes more sense than having all areas wide open.
The concept of everyone having equal access to everything is definately an OOC concept.
-
Of course, if certain guilds knew that the Bank of Hydlaa and others will let their guard down once inside the Winch (just an example, not saying they actually would let their guard down.)... it does give the non-compliant citizens of Hydlaa and surrounding areas an ulterior motive for wanting access to the place. If they deemed the benefits of access to be important enough... they may well try, through whatever means, to get access there... even if it means begrudgingly doing errands for the Shadow and Sunshine Squadrons.
It's only out of character if the people accessing the Winch don't have a good reason for doing so. Of course, the Winch is restricted to only allow people that are helpful to government... but I don't see why it would exclude those who just APPEAR to be helpful to government... but who have other ideas!!
-
It's interesting to watch all these different threads that cover similar things from IC and OOC perspectives.
There have been a lot of complaints about not enough people being IC. As I understood it, access to the winch area was based on loyalty to the government. Those who truly RP characters that are not loyal to the government would not do the quest for access to the winch. I don't think it is out of line at all to have a limited access area that is based on an RP reason. In fact it makes more sense than having all areas wide open.
The concept of everyone having equal access to everything is definately an OOC concept.
If ony it were as simple as having IC loyalty to the government. It's difficult for some players to gain access to some quests required to access the winch for purely OOC reasons, ie: the quests don't always work as they're supposed to and some players get locked out for absolutely nothing they have done IC, or even OOC.
Some characters, as Drah mentioned, would run through the gauntlet of assignments (quests) for access to the area, and the unsuspecting citisens within.. even if their character's intentions were less than noble. And, ICly, this is as it should be.
-
Access to limited areas is not a problem to me personally, and yes, I've been locked out due to discarded quests. However, should the current trend continue, I can envision a Yliakum future in which more experienced players will be locked away in restricted areas, leaving future new players out. Is this a future we really want to see in Yliakum?
Honestly I think having a "restricted area" is one of the dumbest ideas the devs have done so far. That's one of the reasons I've only been logged in for about an hour in the past two weeks, instead of two or three hours a day like I used to play. The game hasn't significantly improved in the nearly year and a half that I've been playing.
There have been no new *useful* spells.
No new *useful* weapons.
Not a single new NPC model added.
Not a single new player model added.
The only new skins are for armor, and only for some of the models.
They did add crafting, but it's boring as hell, is quite buggy, requires ridiculous amounts of ore, and you can't craft axes.
Weapon repair was added... but it's just an nuisance and doesn't add enjoyment to the game.
Armor repair doesn't work.
There's a huge list of skills in the Stats section, but just like 16 months ago when I started, they don't work and/or can't be trained.
No game sounds except for spells. If you turn off the music, PS is pretty much silent.
No thieving skills.
The only real way to earn PP is through combat. Why does a miner have to kill monsters in order to train his mining?
Quests are still as broken and lame as before.
NPC "AI" is non-existent.
There is no logic to monster damage and experience. Example: in the arena, there is a rogue that a brand new character can easily kill. It gives 700 experience. Right next to it is an identical-looking rogue that is many times stronger, and is nearly impossible for a new character to kill. It only gives 80 experience. Why does the weak one give high experience while the strong one gives low experience?! Same thing with tefusang. One tefu gives 6000 experience, while one gives less than 100 experience, yet they look exactly the same and are the same size. I see poor noobies kill one monster, realize "hey I can kill a tefu easily!" then hit another one, and die in one hit.
In my opinion, Planeshift has stagnated, and what little development that is happening is going in circles. I realized this is a free game, but PS is going nowhere. Other free 3D MMORPG games like Rappelz are miles ahead of PS, and improving far faster.
I'm done with being a "tester" in a "pre-alpha" game that was pre-alpha years ago, and I'd bet money that it will still be a pre-alpha in 3 years from now, assuming it doesn't die by then.
-Roahn
-
::) Aren't you repeating yourself?
PS development is slow, but we accept it because we all understand the reasons. If that's not acceptable to you, that's fine. But we're not going to be rushed by players who think we should dedicate more time we don't have to a hobby.
Sounds like you should take a time-out and enjoy other games.
-
Sounds like you should take a time-out and enjoy other games.
That is exactly what I have done, which was my point. Like most of the older players that I've known, I have moved on to other games that are not caught in a perpetually broken pre-alpha state.
-Roahn
-
/me points at her sig, and walks away.
-
Offtopic :P
PlaneShift is the most developed crossplattform opensource 3DMMORPG out there and it's done by a couple of enthusiast as a hobby in their spare time. (Correct me if i'm wrong)
I'm around for some time now and i still feel like a child on christmas when a new update is realeased. Thanks for that devs :)
-
Another unsatisfied 'customer'.
I feel very much the same as Peeg on this one.
And Roahn, Why bother even posting about this? Just because your a little annoyed about not being able to access the winch area, which is (I assume) the Devs just trying something new, maybe to actually learn something new and give us something new to aim for.
(and ive still not got access to the winch area.)
-
Another unsatisfied 'customer'.
I feel very much the same as Peeg on this one.
And Roahn, Why bother even posting about this? Just because your a little annoyed about not being able to access the winch area, which is (I assume) the Devs just trying something new, maybe to actually learn something new and give us something new to aim for.
(and ive still not got access to the winch area.)
Idoru,
"Why bother posting this?" Because this is the Complain Department section.
I don't think you read my post, since I *did* give something to aim for by listing the things that could be changed to make Planeshift interesting.
Actually I'm not that annoyed about not being able to access the winch area. I've seen screenshots of it, and it doesn't look like it's worth the effort to walk around and look at some sci-fi-looking structures (what is that doing in a fantasy setting anyway?) and a handful of Hydlaa-type houses with doors that don't open. However, I know a lot of people that have spent weeks trying to get into this area only to find out they can't because of a bug, and have to create a new character and re-do a bunch of quests all over again just to get in.
-Roahn
-
Why are you here undermining our efforts, Roahn? I have known you to be a respectable player and a good voice, but all I see now is you stepping on or scoffing at our work. If you believe our contributions to be mediocre or easy, I would love to see you do anything to compare to them. And if you cannot, then there is nothing more we can say to you on this subject aside "Have a nice time, somewhere else."
The things you have listed are already our aims, and have always been. You are not doing anything but telling us what we already know, and where is the use of that except to blow off your own steam? Acceptable in the complaint section as you pointed out, but also discouraging for the dev team when you take that attitude with you across several posts. We do as much as we can, Roahn, and sometimes we cannot do more.
Why try to bother us about something we have little control over?
As a side-note: PlaneShift's technology is different from your typical medieval era. WoW is a fantasy, but look at their gnome lands.
*edited to add*
You mentioned Rappelz:
Like Gala-Net's other MMO titles, Rappelz is free of subscription charges; revenue is generated through the sale of special items via the "Cash Shop".
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rappelz]
Although the game is free, it is not a volunteer-based project. Their GMs are definitely paid and therefore I believe the team members are too, probably working on the game nearly full-time. We do not have this luxury, and thus there is no way you can compare our growth to their progress. PlaneShift is the only game of its kind that has existed for as long as it has, and with its ever-present potential.
I refuse to accept any mumbo-jumbo about the game "dying" or development "stagnating" :)
-
Those of you locked out of the winch because of quests may want to try again I advise you to complete all open quests before begining and do not discard any quests on the way. Happy gaming.
report in if things are working better for you.
-
Well to all those blaming dev team I can tell it is possible to take discarded quests from bronze doors again. remember to not discard them this time, and don't take more than one at once. Now, when we have the opporunity to get the quests again, let's get into the winch now. The Winch awaits ! Let's go!
-
Hi!
I have done all quest i think that are needed to get THIS specially quest the thread is about.....i think except of one......
....but the problem is, that i once get this missing quest, but then PS crashed and i didn't knew what to do......so i discarded the quest, cause i thought i would get it back in some time.....(after that i heard, that there is some cool thing named "logs" X-/ ).....this was about 2-3 weeks ago.....today i tried to get the quest back, cause i heard about fixing the problem, but without any good result!
So what can i do now?!? ??? :'(
Please Help! :love:
-
Piotarus find me in irc and express your problem clearly maybe i can help you maybe not
-
I was able to get my discarded quest in Winch. Though I am still not able to get Raithen to respond.
-
I was so happy :) when i saw this updated thread, straight away raced to Easamau, asked him the all important question, and.... nothing :(
I've given it a try a few tries in the last 2 days and still nothing, i discarded the quest about 6-8 weeks ago probably, is it time-locked for longer than this?
Thanks.
-
I've given it a try a few tries in the last 2 days and still nothing, i discarded the quest about 6-8 weeks ago probably, is it time-locked for longer than this?
As far as I know it's been different for everyone who discarded quests, some seem to get the quests back quick while others fail to get them at all. Best thing you can do is just keep trying.
-
I think you pretty much have to get lucky and ask when he hasn't been asked recently.
-
Ok, so, this is just from my point of View. Let me first say, that i'm one of those Guys, still not able to access "the Winch".
The idea to earn access to an Area by solving Quests, is brilliant. I like it. Really. That there needs to be more then one Quest for this, absolutely logical to me. That these Quest have to be not too easy, absolutely.
So i've read many Post here, saying "Where is the Problem? Did some Quest, get the final one, voila, the Winch" .
For me, it didn't work out like this. I'm stuck in some Quests because i'm not able to figure out the right Answer/Question for the NPC.
So, maybe a) i found those Quest which are really still not working as desired, or b) as english is not my first Language, i maybe made some stupid mistakes in spelling/Grammar ( whatever i tried ) or c) i'm too stupid ( flame here ).
After i ask for some help ingame, and just found some people stuck in these Quest as well, so i hope it's maybe a).
One example why this is may the case ( changed a little bit to avoid spoilers ) : The quest for the littel blue rubber duck, XY has lost on the Beach.
Found the right Guy (mabye the Beach attendant) and asked : Have you seen the little blue rubber duck, XY has lost on the Beach? (and about 34 other combinations) No success.. After a lot of trial and error and asking around, i found someone who gave me the hint that it has to be : Have you seen the little lost rubber duck? ...and Bingo!
So, please understand that this left me confused......
I understand that this is maybe the result of the current NPC System, and that reengineer this System is maybe point 1232 of 321233 on the to-do-list,
so i don't want to blame anyone for this.
I just want to ask for a little bit more understanding for people who also may have picked some of the less obvious Quests ( where the riddle is more like a number-guess-game with numbers between 1 and 10000 ).
To finally get more constructive, here's the Question : I'm stuck in five of those Quest, whatever i tried, heard that it's not safe to discard Quest as it may screw you up completely,but it's better not to have too many open Quests. So, is there a hint, that wouldn't spoil to much, but may can point me ( and companions in misfortune ) in the right Direction?
Like : Don't discard Quest from the XY-People, but ask maybe here-or-there for help, but you can safely discard a Quest you may got here-and there or ask maybe at-another-place about these.
regards
backeroo
-
Hey, please have some patience. Few people i know had some problems getting the discarded quests in bd. However, they eventually got them. [few had to wait some time long hours, more than 24h, too]. If you can't get certain quest now, please go take the other one and have fun with it. Believe me you will get into the winch in proper time. (and no, i don't mean soon(tm) ). there are new quests all around Yliakum and you can solve them while you are waiting for the winch ones. just be patient, go to bd often, ask npc for quests. I hope we all meet in Winch in the next few days. Do not give up or complain now just because npc don't want to give the quests NOW. I wish you all luck!
-
Very well said Edicho. I am one of those people, and Xillix's advice should be followed to the T. Finish all your pending quests and keep trying the other ones, take care.
-
Uhm. Can I hack the door to the wench from hydlaa? Literally. Its right there. Who gives about their goverment. Ill send a entourage of noobs to kiss ass to let me in though. Will that work? Vengeance? I have a whole slew of noobs if you want them, just for you. All I need is full level up on volund, and 10 million would be nicely rounded up.
-
Uhm. Can I hack the door to the wench from hydlaa? Literally. Its right there. Who gives about their goverment. Ill send a entourage of noobs to kiss ass to let me in though. Will that work? Vengeance? I have a whole slew of noobs if you want them, just for you. All I need is full level up on volund, and 10 million would be nicely rounded up.
Nope, everything is:
- Deliver a from x to y character and return b to x
- Go from x to y
- Do a, b, c then d
- Move from c to d using process z
Linearity above everything else.
But that idea is a bit of godmodding, isn't it?
-
lordraleigh, for one, whatever you think linearity is the last thing on our mind.
http://laanx.fragnetics.com/nexus/newapplicant.php
You seem to have some extensive problems with how the current settings team handles things.
To me this is based on a lack of understanding of realistic time constraints or needed man hours. Prove me wrong apply succeed and change the face of PS.
You will go through exactly the paces every other candidate does.
If you cannot see the openess and welcome herein expressed, please do not grief us.
-
Some people make a hobby of creating something - others spend all their time constantly "criticizing" whatever aspects they're currently fixated on ;)
It all comes down to my most favorite smiley in the world:
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1211/beatingadeadhorsebyliviusmi4.gif)
Ah. The clean stink of repetition.
-
ROFL ... OK, time to take a deep breath, step away from the computer and go outside and enjoy the sunshine
-
others spend all their time constantly "criticizing" whatever aspects they're currently fixated on ;)
You could say that "fixated on" is now being used as a euphemism for annoyed-at-being-flawed??? But I know what you're getting at really Karyuu... some people react really quickly and expect everything to work immediately and there certainly are some who are at least "fixated on" getting into the winch... I guess I'm one of them!!
Anyhoo... I've still got a Kran that's not very forthcoming with what he used to be... but even that doesn't matter... thing is, the dev team know about this now... and have made a few tweaks to get things fixed and stop pivotal quests from being discarded too.
I'm still gutted that I seem to be locked out of some quests, but I'm glad others have found more fortune... and, although I'm still feeling as far from winch as I was a week ago... I know the efforts so far certainly have helped quite a few other players finally get into the winch.
I'll keep trying... and... although I'm still a little stuck with things.. I just wanted to say...
thanks guys.. (settings-team and devs)... for trying to get this fixed for us all. :)
-
I have an idea: Players shoud be able to access the winch when they are in group with players who have winch access.
-
How about having an NPC that can be bribed for a large amount to give access to the Winch. You could set the amount at a million tria (or more!?) which would mean players would still have to work hard... and at least already be wealthy - to get in.
It'd also give a chance to those who are still locked out of the Winch due to bugs, etc.
-
The devs already have a plan for another way to access the winch you just need to wait for all the bugs to be ironed out. [and of course to find that way to get in]
-
Well after 65(ish) days, this is better than no news!! ;)
I just hope whatever 'solution' you may have ... doesn't cause a whole heap of other bugs to occur.
Fingers crossed... good luck devs!!!
-----------------
EDIT:
To clarify why I'm getting annoyed...
( Besides the fact I can't get Kimlorm's quest after 3 months. )
a) I can't do Easamau's first quest (for a second time) because I can't discard Hinoserri's quest to re-get the item needed for Easamau's first quest.
b) We are told to do quests one-at-a-time... ONLY.
c) We are told not to discard quests now.
Ultimately, this means NO quests at all, according to the rules.
I'm not saying it was right... but I can at least understand why Eid did what he did... the wait was becoming unbearable... even for a bunch of hobbyist devs (who ultimately managed to fix the problem in no less than 48 hours when they realized that it was more important than adding features to the game that nobody had asked for!!)
... oh... and I am sorry for being insensitive (if I am)... I'm just annoyed that... firstly I was made to feel like a dick because I apparently wasn't completing all the quests. After about a month of looking like I was in the wrong, thanks to what the settings team, GMs, moderators, etc. were incorrectly stating... I found out there were several bugs... after hanging on for these to get fixed.. I found they weren't fixed and was again misinformed by people who are part of PS's production team... and now... well, I've kinda given up, I actually feel more demotivated by the PS production team misinforming me, making me look like a dick for the best part of a month.. and then finding out it was ultimately not my fault... and well, you know the rest.
Again, good luck, but please excuse me if I have little faith, patience, consideration or sensitivity left, it's at least for a few good reasons.
-
Drah, can you please elaborate on how members of the dev team have misinformed you?
-
Well, I'm probably harsh saying misinforming, but certainly many were given the impression (and I think actually told) that their problems were down to a lack of completion rather than bugs or problems. I'm not the only person who felt it took a while to burst through a bubble of a response akin to "there's no problems... you just simply haven't done the all the quests" that seemed to be prevalent at first.
Look, I'm not making any real accusations of misconduct or anything even close to that... it's not like I'm THAT bothered.. because it is ultimately just a game... and a free one too... which is very generous of the dev-team... and for that you all deserve no-end of respect.
Truthfully, every other bug in the game, over the space of a year, has not bothered me at all, no matter how unfair it was to me... but for some reason, this, contrasted to where the team seem focused judging on their output... has irritated me (at least ... as much as is possible for a free-game, from a generous dev-team.)
It just seems to me and many others who are in the same situation, that we've been told there have been fixes... and these fixes don't seem to have helped... not only that but some "fixes" have seemingly put us in a catch-22 on quests... and while we're sitting here on day 65 hoping our best characters can finally get into the Winch to explore the areas they deserve to explore (in comparison to our secondary chars / alts .. or even new chars)... we see new Dlayo's, a new PVP area, etc. --- all the while.. the apparent "fix" that occured still leaves plenty of us clueless.
Anyway... like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed... and sincerely, wish the dev team the best of luck in fixing these things. Sorry for ranting... I found PS addictive not to long ago, for all gameplay/roleplay reasons... and I'm not sure why (I'm not even bothered about power-levelling or getting chain-mail pants!!).. but this has been the only thing I've found spoil it for me.
I wish I could do something to help, but even with access to the source-code... I wouldn't know what live data the code is having to work with and so would have to spend time to emulate everything I've done over the last 4 or 5 months!!
-
I think the issue is that the devs that can deal with this problem are very busy right now trying to get the bugs out of the inventory code venge started to rewrite and when they are done or mostly done with that they will have a lot more time to work on the quest issues. Venge has put in a few fixes so far that must be part of a lot bigger plan of what needs to be done. I would not say they are not doing anything or you are stuck you never know unless you are a dev what they have planned. I would say if comes to the end of the next release if this is not fixed then poke the devs again.
-
The reason I asked was because I'm trying to better understand how to establish successful dev/community interactions :) So if you feel something wasn't done correctly or handled poorly, I'll ask for details to make sure no similar bumps in the road occur. I'm not trying to create an argument or start a debate, if that's what you are worrying about.
As far as I have known for several weeks, our main quest issues have not been taken care of yet. Maybe something recent has been developed, but again I've seen no word of it myself on the forums. The code for a PvP area has actually been there for a very long time - what happened now is that it was activated for a certain location, so there was very little to no new work there. A similar situation exists for the Dlayo: Magodra is the dev who has been working on our tribe system for months, expanding the abilities of our NPCs. We have different people working on different things, and so new features still pop up when previous features (coded by someone else) need to be smoothed out. I've noticed that this is a fairly common comment, that new things are being created while the old need to be taken care of. The reason for this is a diverse team with many different talents - someone may be intimately familiar with NPCs, but have little information on how the quest system is coded.
Ultimately, fixing select bugs falls on those devs who know how to do it instead of our programmers as a whole. So it may be slow going, and I apologize for the delays you are experiencing.
-
development is not transparent to players with good reason. It has been stated before that we all have different jobs. Just because the needed people are tied up on other tasks does not mean development stops in all other areas. I personally could not help with this anymore than i have. I chose therefore to add some other features to the game. If the players would prefer i can just stop doing anything else even though i cannot aid this situation possibly more than i have to this point that sounds good i could use a break.
Come on now, be of good cheer we are doing all we can as fast as we can. Sometimes fixes make borkage it is the nature of development.
I just hope everyone clearly knows no dev is asleep at the wheel.
We are giving it all we can.
-
The devs already have a plan for another way to access the winch you just need to wait for all the bugs to be ironed out. [and of course to find that way to get in]
I just hope its not more quests :sweatdrop:
-
The devs already have a plan for another way to access the winch you just need to wait for all the bugs to be ironed out. [and of course to find that way to get in]
I just hope its not more quests :sweatdrop:
:whistling:
-
The devs already have a plan for another way to access the winch you just need to wait for all the bugs to be ironed out. [and of course to find that way to get in]
I just hope its not more quests :sweatdrop:
There MUST be other ways to get into The Winch:
The Winch is the transport mechanism which allows the movement of goods and citizens of Yliakum between adjacent levels of the Yliakum Stalactite.
The City of Hydlaa, along with all the rest of the areas that can be explored in PlaneShift so far, is located on the uppermost First Level of the eight levels that are inside the hollowed-out Yliakum Stalactite.
Hydlaa's Winch is the first winch to appear in-game so far. It will connect the First Level of Yliakum with the Second Level of Yliakum. It is essentially a Departures Area.
Directly below Hydlaa's Winch and on the Second Level of the Yliakum Stalactite is an area that functions essentially as an Arrivals Area for Hydlaa's Winch.
This Arrivals Area is presumably attached to an as yet un-named city or town on the Second Level of Yliakum. The movement of goods and citizens is possible in both directions from Second Level to First Level and from First Level to Second Level.
At present, of all the 12 Races, only the Enkidukai have their Spawn Point in a city of their own: Ojaveda -all other races spawn each at a different part of Hydlaa. Eventually each Race will have a spawn point in a city or town or village of their own.
The Second Level city or town attached to the Arrivals Area of Hydlaa's Winch, will become the Spawn Point for one of the other 11 races...
Eventually a new character created as a member of this Race will arrive in Yliakum at this Spawn Point...
The current Winch Access process of completing a string of inter-connected Quests from NPCs on the First Level of Yliakum, will be of absolutely no usefulness whatsoever to this new character - an impossibility in fact without [GM] intervention to teleport this character to where they could start the current Winch Access process!
So.. there MUST be other ways to get into The Winch! :)
Proof exists of this: there is an NPC on the First Level of Yliakum who explains to you that they came up from the Second Level to trade goods and to improve their life.
Quests have proven their worth as a means of gaining things and progressing our characters lives in PlaneShift - why shouldn't they be used for such purpose in future - expect many, many more of them as other areas of Yliakum and of PlaneShift are revealed to us all!
-
I felt i wanted to add my point of view to this, though it may be a little bias, since i have now done all quests and gained access to the winch. Though the point hasnt been raised, that after about 3-4 weeks of doing quests, i come to find that the winch is closed to all at the moment, which is quite frustrating.
In terms of the quests themselves, i did found them to be very very time consuming, and at times, extremely frustrating. As far as i was told, there was around 12 quests needed to gain access, after 25 quests at the bronze doors, i finally got there. However, at the end of the day, i found it to be extrememly rewarding, knowing that ive done all these quests, and find at the end, the ultimate prize of access. Even though i havent been able to enjoy my prize as yet.
I do hope, that the issue of the winch being closed is being looked at, and i won't have to wait too long to finally reap the rewards of nearly a months work.
-
I just have to say the inter-level access is such an important economic function that it is entirely likely that all easy routes will be heavily restricted by those who control them so quests or "favors" are entirely likely. It is possible that later on when flying is a possibility what is developed before that will need to be rebalanced but for the time being I think this is something you can expect.
-
Well Narare will be damned if he does any favours for the guards or sunshie squadron or what ever. And I'll be damned if the only way to get into the winch is the most un-user friendly and bugged part of the game. I want to see climbing impelented so I can scale the wall. Or hide in shadows so i can slip past the gaurds in the sewer entrance. But then again i would be tempted to do some quests if it involved the black enkidukai.
/me takes a swig from his bottle of Fryan Liqour
-
I was suggesting you might have to do favors for Zak and friends or even possibly the fanatics. you think the underworld is going to be less organized or protective of their routes? I think once air travel is enabled there will be air patrols but I do agree it should be possible to get anywhere not fully enclosed by individual effort. I am just not sure how long you will need to wait for that to be implemented.
-
many alternatives are being explored do you think someone who played a shady priestess of laanx would forget the bad guys? All in good time. The underlying problems need to be fixed, this is broken now because of attempts to provide alternatives so relax please we are doing all we can. For those of you who see the merit in our thinking you have our thanks. PS is difficult plan on it getting moreso but having more options.
everyone please send me a list of what is now stopping you from entering through PM on the forums only.
The winch is open for business now including a new way
Remember Jeraphon TomT Caarrie Hilon and Venge at christmas Time
-
The thing that frustrated me a bit is, for those of us that jumped on quests before they were working properly (there's no way to tell before getting them if they work or not, unless your told so), we were advised to discard the quests and get them again. Or in some cases, the only way to complete them was to discard them because the fix didn't work if you already had the broken quest active. (Unless that is incorrect in which case I too was either misled or misunderstood). Some of those quests, and now its apparent that those are one-timers, I haven't been able to get again. I just went ahead and did them under another character but I can see from a character point of view why someone might find that scenario unacceptable. I was very fortunate to get the winch quest on the first day, before it seems so many of these prerequisite quests were added, including those Mordaan has not and now will not be able to complete. Its a bit of a mess at the moment and I can understand those that are really frustrated. I know its :beta: and all and it will all be ironed out in time, not to mention all this will eventually be irrelevant with wipes, but for now, seems only fair to have either a quest wipe/reset, or just make those one-timer quests, two-timers and allow those who fell between the cracks a chance at actually getting/doing them.
Well, I'm probably harsh saying misinforming, but certainly many were given the impression (and I think actually told) that their problems were down to a lack of completion rather than bugs or problems. I'm not the only person who felt it took a while to burst through a bubble of a response akin to "there's no problems... you just simply haven't done the all the quests" that seemed to be prevalent at first.
Look, I'm not making any real accusations of misconduct or anything even close to that... it's not like I'm THAT bothered.. because it is ultimately just a game... and a free one too... which is very generous of the dev-team... and for that you all deserve no-end of respect.
Truthfully, every other bug in the game, over the space of a year, has not bothered me at all, no matter how unfair it was to me... but for some reason, this, contrasted to where the team seem focused judging on their output... has irritated me (at least ... as much as is possible for a free-game, from a generous dev-team.)
It just seems to me and many others who are in the same situation, that we've been told there have been fixes... and these fixes don't seem to have helped... not only that but some "fixes" have seemingly put us in a catch-22 on quests... and while we're sitting here on day 65 hoping our best characters can finally get into the Winch to explore the areas they deserve to explore (in comparison to our secondary chars / alts .. or even new chars)... we see new Dlayo's, a new PVP area, etc. --- all the while.. the apparent "fix" that occured still leaves plenty of us clueless.
Anyway... like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed... and sincerely, wish the dev team the best of luck in fixing these things. Sorry for ranting... I found PS addictive not to long ago, for all gameplay/roleplay reasons... and I'm not sure why (I'm not even bothered about power-levelling or getting chain-mail pants!!).. but this has been the only thing I've found spoil it for me.
I wish I could do something to help, but even with access to the source-code... I wouldn't know what live data the code is having to work with and so would have to spend time to emulate everything I've done over the last 4 or 5 months!!
-
Alright seriously you are all making up stuff and misinforming one another. If I post another post which is ignored I will just stop caring about the thread. The problems have been dealt with in certain ways that have caused other problems. Due to outcry we tried many different kinds of fixes, some of which helped some people and set other people back. l don't really think it is helpful any time someone starts any thought with "I know this is beta but . . . " <----you already answered yourself as best as anyone else can when you begin this way.
We provided a new alternative and the promise of more on the way and the promise of fixes. I need only get the message out to people still locked out of the winch PM me here on the forum with details about what you believe is keeping you out of the winch. I would like to troubleshoot with some more information. Nothing is transparent to me. I am a writer, all i can do is pester the people in power to fix this and grant you new means to enter.
Those locked out of the winch do not need a champion, there is a whole team working for them.
People who got in easily unknowingly exploited a glitch in the system it was never intended to be easy.
-
It seems to me, talking through my hat, that there is something odd about the way quests are handled. I have not seen the code, and might not understand it if I did, but it appears that the npc can only respond to one quests keywords at a time and that people who have more are confusing the npcs. It would seem logical to me that when you receive a quest it tags a field in your character data and then when you talk to the npcs they check this field to see if you have the appropriate code needed for them to respond and if so they respond and modify that quests entry such that the next npc will know to respond to the next part of the quest. If it was done this way, continuing my wild speculation, then multiple quests could be run concurrently and not conflict with each other because they would be checking different entries in this quest field.
To the others: I have already sent my pm to Xillix and included which quests I could not proceed with, where I was stuck with them along with a list of quests I have completed and those still pending. I suggest you do the same. I received a nice reply and am waiting for my contribution to bear fruit and/or a request for further information. I am not expecting instantaneous results but do think I have helped to resolve the situation.
One thing I would like to ask about the other ways into the winch and that is are the current methods, both the new and original ones mutually exclusive? It would help to know that those who have completed the one could not complete the other if that is the case. I think it would prevent extraneous reports of "I can't do this quest" if people know from the start that they are excluded and why.
-
If you have access to the winich you cant get in with the other method as you cant even do that way to get in
-
Thank you for the quick confirmation, it may prevent problems. I suppose in the future that might need to change if you are going to allow peoples world-paths to change, for instance a good and righteous citizen could get framed for some deed which would cause him to lose official sanction and have to seek out the underhanded way to escape to the next level or a bad dude might get religion and not be trusted to the old paths by the underworld. Those are considerations that need not be dealt with now but might be remembered when the game is more mature.
-
It seems to me, talking through my hat, that there is something odd about the way quests are handled. I have not seen the code, and might not understand it if I did, but it appears that the npc can only respond to one quests keywords at a time and that people who have more are confusing the npcs. It would seem logical to me that when you receive a quest it tags a field in your character data and then when you talk to the npcs they check this field to see if you have the appropriate code needed for them to respond and if so they respond and modify that quests entry such that the next npc will know to respond to the next part of the quest. If it was done this way, continuing my wild speculation, then multiple quests could be run concurrently and not conflict with each other because they would be checking different entries in this quest field.
This is the design. It is not working. One day it will work again.
-
try adding a ; or moving a ,
It seems kind of like I am teaching grandma to suck eggs (http://www.idiomsite.com/donttryto.htm). No offense intended. Has it been narrowed down to a code problem or an sql problem? I'm just kind of curious.
-
some who have taken the care to follow my advice (thereby affecting 140 individuals) may well find their troubles eased. For the rest of you please send me a PM.
-
some who have taken the care to follow my advice (thereby affecting 140 individuals) may well find their troubles eased. For the rest of you please send me a PM.
Yeah, listen to Xillix.
Thanks to her help, Miaua and me are now rid of (hopefully ;D) all bugs that prevented us from entering the winch. So, don't give up and send your problems to her. \\o//
Hassadria and Miaua
-
some who have taken the care to follow my advice (thereby affecting 140 individuals) may well find their troubles eased. For the rest of you please send me a PM.
What if you cannot get into the winch and cannot send a PM either? :sweatdrop:
-
there is always irc
-
The winch is very hard 2 access since there are many players now. I personally have i quest remaining then i will be able to entre the winch... but this quest i know i will never get again (Chorsor)....mainly because i had discarded it ages ago... now im stuck and i get very frustrated at times becoz i know that i maynot be able to train my stats futher and also my magic ways... i propose that the developers make the winch availble to all users ... so gameplay will be more enjoyable to all... may be a fee at the entrance wouldnt hurt or just 1 quest to do to entre the winch... training is already hard, now mining is 2 and to make it worse the winch can only be accessed by few... please Developers make the game greater and more enjoyable to all, be fair ...this is the best game ive ever come across and it frustrates me to see simple errors making the game annoying... thank u ..
Rokotuiwai.
-
Please follow Xillix's instructions and contact him.
And read this thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24710.0)!
-
merged to the other topic, as well, I can. :P
-
If you cannot send a pm I suggest you become more engaged in forum discussions and learn more about the game before trying to contact me. I feel a greater need to aid the people who have done much in their efforts to get in to those who have done little. Odds are fairly good that if you cannot post a pm here you have also not done everything needed for the winch. I will of course aid anyone regardless.
-
Odds are fairly good that if you cannot post a pm here you have also not done everything needed for the winch. I will of course aid anyone regardless.
I don't think this is a very fair assumption to make. I, for example, have not made 10 posts, thus cannot send a pm, yet I am in the winch. Just because I don't particularly like forums, and prefer irc for my questions, doesn't mean i dont try, and dont get involved in the community. Quite frankly, this is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.
-
I do not think so at all, if you examine what i said. "Odds are" <--this would indicate "in most cases"
So you are an exception, good show.
I would prefer to do it here because it creates a record and i can do it at my leisure, I have already personally taken the time to aid dozens in this manner. So anyone still having a problem can help me help them in the manner i prescribe and I will not feel bad for having asked them to do so. I am emmanently reachable so anyone having trouble reaching me is not really lifting a finger :whistling:
-
If you cannot send a pm I suggest you become more engaged in forum discussions and learn more about the game before trying to contact me. I feel a greater need to aid the people who have done much in their efforts to get in to those who have done little. Odds are fairly good that if you cannot post a pm here you have also not done everything needed for the winch. I will of course aid anyone regardless.
I'm playing since about 8 months and don't really like forums, but yeah, maybe i should spam a bit to get the 10 posts i need :whistling:
-
there are many people with 80 quests who do not have the correct ones :D so keep working at it
-
Xillix, I can't get into the winch. My main trouble is, I don't have that .18 client. Second probem is, I think I've done only 1 or 2 quests total, lifetime.
Please fix this for me?
;)
-
/me hands neko a download link and a lot of free time
-
I would prefer to do it here because it creates a record and i can do it at my leisure, I have already personally taken the time to aid dozens in this manner. So anyone still having a problem can help me help them in the manner i prescribe and I will not feel bad for having asked them to do so. I am emmanently reachable so anyone having trouble reaching me is not really lifting a finger :whistling:
I wasn't questioning your method, I'm sure everyone appreciates all you are doing to sort the problem, including myself, though i didn't need that help, there are others i know that do. I would never suggest that you, or any of the devs aren't doing a good job, I appreciate the fact that you all do it in your spare time, and i think that is to be commended, so i would never, ever, knock anything that you do, or the reasons you do it. I may offer a suggestion if i think something isnt quite right, but im getting off the point.
I was only saying, that it wasnt a good comparison to make, if someone had 2 posts in forums, it would mean they havent tried hard enough in game or something along those lines. I know some in game, that love to rp, and do so most of the time, but i rarely see posts on here from them, meaning, they are involved in the community, but obviously dont like forums. Lets face it, its not everyones cup of tea. I read the forums quite often, but i dont like to have a conversation on here, i prefer the live chat, like irc, for out of game chats.
So to summarise, please dont think that i was having a go at you for your method, i most certainly was not. I was only having a go at you for your outlook on people with low post numbers on this forum, and stand by that. But hell, if i need to post more, heres another, lol.
-
only seven more for you :D
no worries, i was not a forum person either. I think it is kind of crucial to our game to be involved in the forums too as a tester. IMO
\\o//
please everyone keep the info flowing
-
AFTER much toil access to the winch was granted to me. I have the Sealed letter for Winch Vigesimi, but this does not come with a quest and Datal Allavium does not respond to my queries. What do I do? HELP!
Odisseo
-
Hang on to the letter and give it a bit of time. You're doing everything correctly.
-
"after 5 weeks of trying to get the quests needed, Durwyn is still at the doors of the winch" ->
im a freak player as would tell my friends, and the most annoying thing that can make angry a player is that he cant do what he will! right no?
here is my problem and a question : 1) cant get the quest from Hiacheius - Chrosor and Tarmeen. is it possible that players is doing these quests during 5 weeks? :S
2) when the devs implented the fixed quests, i was thinking about something..must i..do the quests..again?! and so i try to ask the quests already done and the worst!!!! is that i succeeded to have them back :/ how that happen that i can have the completed quests again and not the one i need? im not sure i will access the winch by this way. i give up it exactly.
So if my questions can be helpful for others to dont be in my sad case it will be my best wish ^^
Durwyn
-
Durwyn what about pming (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=23762) this info to xillix do you not understand?
-
Durwyn what about pming (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=23762) this info to xillix do you not understand?
after those months passed together ingame, i think you can have an appropriate answer ^^ lol well i will do that, thank you.
-
Hello, i'm not english so forgive me for my bad english,
i have ask a lot of player who get access to the winch and they answer me that i need to make some quests to get it,
now i think i did all of them,
i just want to know how to be sure ? i'm running the Bronze Door like a phantom now trying to get some an existence quest to have access to the winch,
i feel just like alone in the dark
maybe someone will hear me ?
loux
-
I think there may be a quest you are missing, or at least I am told that there is one that is harder to find. One that doesnt start in the BD area.
-
do you think i really don't know that ?
loux
-
Thats not a very nice comment :( you said in your first post that you think you did all the quests, and now you are saying otherwise ???
-
i just say that i know some quests related to BD and winch don't start in the BD, that's all i say
loux
-
You could try pming Xillix as per this post (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27600.msg326472#msg326472). You will at least find out if you have completed the quests, if not which ones you have missed.
-
There are now multiple ways to get into the winch, the pms can stop. Work it out people. I would rather be writing new material than tending to your troubles on an individual basis.
I give this warning
Do not take more than one quest at a time!
good luck \\o//
-
There are now multiple ways to get into the winch
I'm sold.:)
-
You're welcome, zanzibar.
-
Ok. I've read pages 11-18, but not pages 2-10. So excuse me if this has been asked before.
I completed some of the quests when they were first introduced, but I didn't get the winch quest. Do I have to discard any quests and redo them before getting the winch quest?
-
Hello,
i have done all quest from Canyt to Taemian and i can not get access to the winch, is it normal ?
loux
-
Hello,
i have done all quest from Canyt to Taemian and i can not get access to the winch, is it normal ?
loux
Those NPC's are right there at the fortress itself, so yes it is normal that you have not got access to the winch yet. You must go much farther out. Anything else I can think of saying falls into the spoiler range. I know you said you've talked to people in-game, but try talking to a few more in-game. I know there are a lot of people there who can help you out. If you see me just come up and say "Hi" and I will be happy to give you more info.
-
i got the quest !!! that's greats !
see you there
loux
-
Zanzibar, you could not discard them if you wanted to and there is no need. It does not matter when you finished a quest it matters that it is in your notebook as completed.
@loux congrats \\o//
-
thanks,
i discard a quest to get some gold ingots when we were not able to make them, so i forget to complete the quest :)
see you
loux
-
I'm having troubles with Taemian's quest.. a few days ago I got the anvil from him, with barely enough room to fit it, and then the server crashed. When I logged back on, I got a message saying that my inventory was full and I no longer had the anvil but I still had Taemian's quest. I now can't discard his quest. I also can't do another quest if I want to stay by Xillix's suggestion not to do more than one quest at once. I am stumped...
-
Asalya, is there any way you can try starting that quest with an alt character, and then transfer the item to your main?
-
ahhh yes, I could attempt that :D thank you Karyuu!
-
Asalya, is there any way you can try starting that quest with an alt character, and then transfer the item to your main?
This works. It's a pain, especially when you need to do a number of quests just to get the quest which provides the necessary item, but it does work.
-
Old Raithen used to be way high on my hate list. Right next to Jayose who ive never forgiven for calling me a mud-dobber. But man, when you eventually get it all done and that final quest rolls round.... The feeling is magic. If you dont have winch access yet, just keep doing them quests... Its worth it.
-
Xilix said :
There are now multiple ways to get into the winch, the pms can stop. Work it out people. I would rather be writing new material than tending to your troubles on an individual basis.
i agree there there are multiple ways, i know 2 atm,the only thing is i discarded quests needed for both a long time ago and i can never have the needed quests again ....is there a 3rd way to enter the winch ? or any other solution to help me with that ?
-
is there a 3rd way to enter the winch ? or any other solution to help me with that ?
I can confirm that there is a third way.
-
if you have tangled yourself in multiple quests i cannot help you anymore only a wipe will help you. Players need to realize this is not a settings problem. I have too much to do to aid you on an individual level anymore. you may relay your problems through the bug tracker. I have worked like a dog to make this better and have aided many. It seems no one cares once they get what they wanted and then it is just a matter of time before they are on to the next complaint. I tire of it. Until we can make it so it is impossible for you to take more than one quest at a time and make a general quest wipe you will have to police yourselves or deal with the mess you are in.
Try to have fun regardless.
That is all.
-
Actually a quest wipe might not be a bad idea.... Just not a total wipe of stats ect. I would say give some warning tho so ppl could collect their notes on teh quests that they have done... however that is not even necessary I guess :devil:
-
I'd collect all in-game-saved notes sharpish actually, as a new release has been threatened to drop late April/early May, and from what I've seen release upgrades wipe quest notes :] Just a warning. I was slightly put out when I got the latest version after a few months break, and released all my notes had been lost.
-
I'd collect all in-game-saved notes sharpish actually, as a new release has been threatened to drop late April/early May, and from what I've seen release upgrades wipe quest notes :] Just a warning. I was slightly put out when I got the latest version after a few months break, and released all my notes had been lost.
We're getting a new release right now, actually. That's why the server is down.
-
I'd collect all in-game-saved notes sharpish actually, as a new release has been threatened to drop late April/early May, and from what I've seen release upgrades wipe quest notes :] Just a warning. I was slightly put out when I got the latest version after a few months break, and released all my notes had been lost.
-shrug- I've never had any of my notes "stick" ... have had to do them all external to the game
-
You can find and spare your notes and shortcuts by going into your data files in ps folder and copying them out of the file then update then replace.
Anyone having good experiences with the winch these last few weeks?
-
Anyone having good experiences with the winch these last few weeks?
-still trying :thumbup: -
-
Not me, I've got a few more quests to clear up before I can take on any new ones. I have yet to start looking for the secret door or rooftop pathway that will allow direct access, which is good as they probably do not exist. It would be nice if there was an unguarded side door whose lock I could practice picking, but I do not suppose that will exist either. I have managed to get through four or five of the quests I was stuck on but still have four or five on my list. Not working at them too hard. I spend most of my time training and trying to generate the cash to pay for it.
-
...
Anyone having good experiences with the winch these last few weeks?
Yes indeed! Let me put it this way...
A long-lost friend of mine showed up, handed me an item identical to another one I had had. I stared at it, puzzled a few minutes until I remembered what had happened the last time I had this item and handed it over for a fellow to look at. This time would be different, I was sure of it. After a rather lengthy chain of events I have found myself in the Winch, having followed the path of Dubious Virtue. I've since counseled other afflicted folk who have enjoyed similar success!
Knowing the path of the Exemplary Citizen, and the path of Dubious Virtue, I wonder what the other path to the Winch involves. Hrm...Merchants? Magic? I can only speculate.
-
Loading all maps and jumping in didn't work last time I tried it. :P
-
Mornox, you're getting mighty close to spoilers...I'd be a little more careful.
-
I'm not really obsessed by getting winch access ,i only wanted to know if there's something that can help.
I can deal with the idea of never getting there,and i'm still having fun anyway,PS is great and i like it much :)
Congrats to all who are workin to keep PS alive and still evolving ! \\o// :thumbup:
Thanks Again Xillix for your answer !
-
After much struggle and frustration, i finally managed to access the Winch. I must say that the difficulty involved only increases the reward. Thank you to everyone for your help on this matter and good luck to everyone who has not yet managed to get into the (in)famous Winch. Of course, once I managed to get in, the server went down for an update. I guess I'll just have to wait a while longer before exploring the Winch.
-
I'd like to ask, what is going on with The Winch? Here's the situation: The only way to get to a new map, called "The Winch," is to do what I hesitantly call a "quest." This quest requires talking to a certain NPC. Unfortunately someone decided that the NPC should only give the quest every 15 minutes or so... So there is constantly a crowd around this certain NPC. A few minutes ago, there were a dozen people standing around, typing "Can I help you?" to the same NPC over and over and over again. I spent an hour last night, when there were only 3 of us, and never got the "quest." Today, with a dozen people doing the same thing, I started asking around. One guy said he spent 3 solid hours yesterday, and he's back today, and still hasn't gotten "The Quest."
Now, I hate to whine about a "free pre-alpha" game, but this just baffles me. This NPC is so stupid, he doesn't even understand you when you say "Hello" to him! I've been playing for over a year, and even the day I started, you could at least say "Hello" and get a response better than "Please use a correct phrase." The idea of standing in front of an NPC and asking the same question 10,000 times in a row is just ridiculous, and reminds me yet again why I hadn't done a "quest" in months. I begin to wonder if it would be possible to make a game less interesting.
-Roahn
Once again. If it's not interesting.. Don't Play. :thumbdown:
-
That post you quoted was three months old, War In Silence. Those problems have since been fixed.
-
Anyone having good experiences with the winch these last few weeks?
Yes, me too.
I recently started playing Planeshift again after a break of 5 months or so and I've now got two characters into the winch area by two different routes (though it must be said with quite a few hints from someone who had already got in, so thank to them, and thanks to Xillix). Then again perhaps I was lucky since because of the break I didn't have any trouble with dropped once-only quests, and because of the possible problems with conflicting quests I was trying them all out with an alt. char. first.
I think the newer quests are generally much better in terms of giving you an idea of who you need to talk to and what you need to say, rather than the annoying 'guess the key phrase' type of thing (though there's still a bit of that) so I'd say things have definitely improved.
[Edit - and of course thanks to Jeraphon too]
-
don't forget jeraphon, who actually wrote the quests johnb. I do other unseen stuff and direct traffic ;)